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Another snow company pushed massive pile into our lot!

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Ramairfreak98ss, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

    How would you handle this?

    I first was pissed off knowing we were already behind and now needing to relocate the loader to another site not planned on ever using it originally.

    In mt laurel, NJ, we handle a property that has an entrance on a main "back street mall road", its 4 lanes so pretty wide.

    The company handling the petsmart, cosco, wegmans and 30 other stores in there pushed the entire entrance on their side of the street with front end loader 16' pushboxes across the 4 lanes and left them RIGHT in the entrance thats about 4 lanes wide into the location we handle.

    By the time our truck got back there for the 2nd push, now at least 8" overnight, but building is still closed, i find out our 1 ton truck cant even get into the lot :/

    Pile was about 10' tall and 70' wide, from traffic light pole on the left side to the pole on the right side. pics below.

    I had our driver waste time in an already desperate time go and find which company handled the adjacent parking lot. He said whos name was on the pushbox and called them. The company said they would check into it and never got back after a 2nd phone call.... they didnt even know if they handled that site or not :/ I'd guess it was subbed to them or from them, who knows.

    a half hour later, i call the cops... 911, what is your emergency. I said Were at xxx location and need an officer out here, the "neighbor" just filled up our driveway with 10' of snow and i need an incident report noting such.

    Cop comes out an hour later, tells my guy theres nothing he can do because its not illegal and we'd have to take it up with the other company, he drives over to find someone, but doesnt.... somehow everyone is gone from the site and its still snowing hard, no push box operator at this time either.

    Two more hours go by, by this time, my guy plows over a quarter mile if not more to get into the aux/back entrance to our clients site through an office complex that has over 12" of snow in it, not knowing the site, where curbs are or anything and to make way for our other crew/trucks and trailer to get in with the tractor later.

    At this time, i have him call the cops again and i want a goddam incident report or else im going to flip. Operator has the call logged or on file, notes on it that we called back again informing them that the company never called us back and never sent anyone over with a machine to remove the pile.

    So by this time, its an hour later already, i take our machine from one property, 72" bucket and 8' pushbox loaded up on our 32' gooseneck trailer with salt and transport 14 miles away in the dead middle of a snowstorm in jersey :/

    An hour more goes by and we finally get to the site "myself" to see wtf is going on. I pull in with one truck going down an decline and its iced up, 4x4 and im spinning in reverse cant move the truck.

    I have the tractor unloaded on the main street, "in the street" because no shoulders are plowed by the city or town yet, and leave it running with lights going and all.

    tractor pushes our truck out and frees it up. Then got the 72" bucket on and drive the 1/4+ mile through the now half plowed office complex from my driver to the main entrance to our clients site.

    See pictures below. There must have been 100 tons of snow, it took hundreds of bucket fulls of hard packed "not iced" though snow and move it to the side and 100' in back of this pile onto the grass part of the site we were on.

    I had long ago notified the prop manager that we service two of these similar locations for.... he said do whatever we need to, he needs to open by 5:30am... so they'd actually PAY for us to remove this other companys @#$%$ up, which i didnt feel was right either.

    Its around midnight by the time the work is finally started to remove this pile.

    4am, site is finished, pile is gone, plow trucks cleaned up what was left and we left. Prop manager was beyond impressed that in such a horrible situation and coupled with the massive snow, that he drives in and opens the doors by 5:30am.

    I have not contacted the other company since, im not even sure what this work costed us in lost time, labor, machine loader emergency cost, transport, fuel, time away from other sites for all the work in relocating the machine, having to send trucks off other jobs to the original site the machine WAS on prior etc.

    I almost was going to just send the company a kind letter in the mail certified with a bill for like $1k, $250/hr for the machine, then im thinking, ive lost thousands on this because we didnt plow other places in time and caused us more headaches than you can imagine.

    Should i keep the bill honest at 1-2k for the work and HOPE they decide its not too bad and just pay it, or should i hammer it at 10k for lost time etc. and hope they hand it off to their liability insurance? I think either way its going to be difficult at best or impossible to get them to pay, so why be so gentle at 1-2k?

    I try to think in the reverse senario, if it was our crew that did this, which i hope it would never be, but i'd only hope the company calls us to report it and not just slam us with a 10k bill the next week :/ But we would have answered the phone which this company never got back to us twice and just thew us by the wayside. Its not my fault they have elcrap brains for operators in 100k loaders on a 200k/season site.

  2. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

  3. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

  4. cubicinches

    cubicinches PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,415

    That's friggin unbelievable. We've had similar situations, but not anywhere near that extent. I hope you get somewhere with the a$$holes.
  5. SnowMatt13

    SnowMatt13 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,559

    I would send someone a bill.....
    You did a smart thing by taking pictures....
    Be honest in the dollar amount.....what goes around comes around, but make sure you get paid appropriately for your time, equipment and hassles.
    Can you prove that it was comapny XXX for sure?
    I would send a bill to the property owner of where the snow came from. Start with that. Maybe meet with him/her and bring your pictures and records. Be a professional and explain your issue and see what happens.
    Then take it from there. No need to push the panic button right away.
  6. SuperdutyShane

    SuperdutyShane PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,517

    Wow, what was he thinking? Did he think all the buildings in there were not operational? Im surprised he even pushed across the street, not 2 lanes but 4 lanes wide too.
  7. SuperdutyShane

    SuperdutyShane PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,517

    Oh and if you arent sure as to who it was pushing the snow... Im sure both of these big lots have cameras, just look if the loader and pusher are the same as the one across the street and if their detailing on the pushed is the same on camera/ in person.
  8. ProSeasons

    ProSeasons Senior Member
    Messages: 624

    Send a bill to the offending snow 'removal' company AND a bill to their client as well explaining the reason for the invoice. At the very least to get the plowing company into trouble with the client.

    I bet you receive 2 checks.
  9. Acmemechanic

    Acmemechanic Senior Member
    Messages: 137

    Thats Unbelievable!!!!

    I have Been Doing Snow Removal For Over 25 Years in Rhode Island and nearby Massachusetts & Almost All Cities and Towns Have a Law That won't even let you Drop your blade on the Public Streets unless You are a contractor With Them.

    You Don't Push across the road under no circumstance whatsoever !!! It in Itself is a Ticket able Offense. The Fines are high enough that if you do and get caught your very likely never to do it again. payuppayup
  10. BruteForce750

    BruteForce750 Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 133

    Do you understand 911 is for emergencies and not there to solve your plowing problems? In a storm which allows piles to accumulate like you have, did you ever think there might be people whom are actually in need of help? And here you are tying up an officer to solve your little dilemma...

    What is wrong with society....
  11. EGLC

    EGLC PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,733

    Brute, last time I checked cops are here to serve and protect and I believe when a contractor is pushing that amount of snow across a FOUR LANE STREET, ONTO AN ENTRANCE WAY FOR A LARGE COMMERCIAL BUILDING that would be a good reason to call.

    You sound like one of those lazy cops who thinks all he has to do it write speeding tickets and go through the drive-thru at Dunkin Dounuts.

    I would call up the Client of this other snow removal company and personally explained what happened and send him the bill along with pictures. Who knows, maybe you'll get his business in the future.
  12. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,194

    I still think I could have worked a hole throught the centre with my Boss V. I'm assuming the contractor had this account the previous year. ;)
  13. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt Senior Member
    from IA.
    Messages: 745

    I am going to agree with Dave on this one.

  14. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

    yeah maybe, ill be sure to find out who the property manager/owner or prop management company is that oversees it and start that way. Im not in a panic situation, not anymore at least, but ultimately because we chewed up so much time on this site, it partially contributed to loosing the account not because of this site "manager was totally impressed" , but we pulled guys off the other site we handle for them and that coupled with just poor performance of the 2nd site and failure to get salt there in time "5:30am", crew "ran out" and took an enormous amount of time to get the truck reloaded and i failed to find out every 10 minutes their status... so we lost both of these accounts. We probably wont get paid and if anything, since they called another larger company now to fix our lack of performance at the 2nd site, im sure we will see a monster last minute bill from them instead of us billing out thousands for the original contract work. It took us forever and multiple site visits to get this account :/

    not blaming it all on this freking monster pile though, just that it sure as hell didnt help when we were already behind.
  15. ed39

    ed39 Senior Member
    Messages: 120

    wen that happens to me, i give it back to themmm.... and make a bigger mess, but thats redic! cops wont do crap ive gone threw this before its a pain in the a$$
  16. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

    yeah... im glad the guys on here understand this! Another site we handle in cherry hill NJ, the adjacent storage center was plowed out the NEXT DAY after our supermarket was done and clear... i find out TODAY that their "monster pile" is pushed across the side street and onto our supermarket's side and covering our snowblown "dry" sidewalks with 6' of snow .

    will get a few pics in the next couple days of that too just for kicks, didnt cause us any issues so far but ill be contacting the company and notifying them in writing that if i see it again on our property across the street ill send them a bill too for the removal and relocation and hauling.. i think theyll get the picture quickly.:cry:
  17. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

    We have most city #s... when you call the local police departments at 11pm or so, they usually do not answer and will say, if this is an emergency, hang up and dial 911...

    ive been told it from both sides, most say always call 911 to get an officer dispatched, and others say dont call unless someone is dying.

    Sure its not an emergency, but when there is no other way to call the police department directly, let 911 operators dispatch properly.
  18. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

    im not sure... its a big place, id hope so. My guys made one 10mph push at it in the V ram position... said truck went a foot or two into the pile and stopped when it started to climb up it.

    I mean its not a 40gvw truck but a 1 ton diesel with 3000+lbs of salt in it and a V XT boss 8'2" plow doesnt go through, your not gonna make it much further with anything similar.... i was hoping he could take a whack at it so it would just eat up a few more minutes...

    when i burried the tractor 72" bucket at the bottom of the pile, "breakout force of roughly almost 3k", it struggled and got stuck for a second at the very bottom scoop because it was slushy and packed hard in near the surface of the street.

    heres a pic or two of the office complex we had to plow through just to get into our lot we handled.[​IMG]

    here comes truck and tractor passing through to get to the lot... [​IMG]
  19. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    What is with these stupid freaking companies?

    Plowing 101
    You can't put piles on other people's properties.

    (see my other thread on teh same subject)

    I talked with the property manager (mine) and told him what's going on and he talked to the other company and basically if we have to remove the pile (loader, dump truck) it's going to cost them (other company) up the ying yang.

    I get the feeling the property manager is pissed and is going to double or triple our bill (which isn't cheap)
  20. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt Senior Member
    from IA.
    Messages: 745

    Is it me or are your guys piling snow in a handicapped parking spot?