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angle of attack?

tru cut

PlowSite.com Veteran
I picked up a boucher from henderson mfg.when i went to the show in concord.On there snowfoe 111 plow you can change the angle of attack from 5 to 10 or20 degreas what is the benafit to this.Ihave not seen this on any other plow,is there any that do?does anyone know the angle of attack of thier plow? Has anyone ever used a henderson<p>----------<br>Todd <br>
 

plowking35

2000 Club Member
Location
SE CT
The degree of attack angle wil be most noticable on hard pack. The benifit is that the more attack angle you have, the less proficient at cutting hard pack the will be. That is why fisher plows dont do very well in packed snow. they move fluffy snow fine, so a less aggressive angle of attack is easier on the plow and truck in powder situations. Also the angle of attack will to some degree effect the way the plow throws snow. I have found that western throws snow better than a fisher, the western has a much lower attack angle(meaning the blade is more vertical)<br>Now the meyer has about the same angle of attack that the western does, but doesnt throw as well, and I thnk that is due to the curve of the moldboard, which may explain why the diamond with the mega curve but steep attack angle throws well also.<br>I can see the benifits of a mutiposition attack angle, depending on conditions you can adjust the plow to be its most effective. <br>I didnt get a broushure so I am not sure how the attack angle is moved, but seeing how the rest of the plow was made, it is a very sturdy piece. Only problem is, you need a 15000 gvw and up truck to push it.<br>Dino <p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org
 

GeoffD

PlowSite.com Veteran
I am not sure if this is what you guys are talking about or not. Anyways if you are talking about the angle the a-frame is to the ground in relation to the blade i might have some good information about Diamond.<p>On the Diamond push fram on the truck, there are 3 holes for the blade's a-frame to attach to ( this is on fisher too, even the minute-mounts, but it's hard to change the angle without quick pins). Anyways when the ground is frozen or we need good to scrape hard pack. I have the guys put the blade in the top hole, this puts the blade at a downward angle, so it wants to dig into the snow, lawn, gravel, or anything else unfrozen. <p>In the start of the reason, most truck use the middle hole, the blade is about level scrapes well but not as good as the top hole. Some trucks use the bottom hole, the drivers make the call, based on their route.<p>This way lawn and gravel aren't dug up as much. The middle of the season when everything is frozen, all trucks run with their blades in the top hole, which works very well. <p>In the spring like the two storms we had in march where everything was unfrozen. I think almost every truck ran their blades in the bottom hole. Here the cutting edge still makes contact with the ground, but less of a downard force is applied to the blade, so less damage is done to unfrozen surfaces.<p>I think Diamond is the only plow company that allows you to change the angle of the a-frame with quick pins. I know it can be done with a fisher but isn't easy. <p>Geoff
 

thelawnguy

PlowSite.com Addict
Location
Central CT
Im a little confused. Putting the pin in the top hole would lower the a-frame, and tilt the blade backwards, correct? And putting it in the bottom hole would raise it and tilt the blade forward. Im using the Fisher as example, where the three holes are on the blade a-frame not the head frame.<p>Just want to be sure Im on the same page here.<p>Bill
 

plowking35

2000 Club Member
Location
SE CT
Geoff I have to disagree with you on the Fisher anyway(have not seen enough diamonds to have an opinion) but in order to get the same angle of attack that the meyer or western does the fisher would need the a frame attached near the hood. The trip edge is angled so far forward that the 3 position holes do very little to help. My opionion is that they were put there only to prolong the life of the spring keepers mounted on the trip edge. I will have to look at my 7.5 fisher boat anchor and see what degree of forward pitch it has and get back to the forum board with what I find.<br>Dino <p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org
 

GeoffD

PlowSite.com Veteran
Ok maybe i am wrong on this one, not the first or last time. I am confused a little myself, because i know useing the top hole puts the blade at a better cutting angle. <p>Are you guys talking about how the trip edge angle changes the cutting ability?<p>Geoff
 

plowking35

2000 Club Member
Location
SE CT
Well the original discussion was about how the Henderson plow was able to change the angle of attack on the cutting edge. And you correctly replied that with the diamond/fisher that with the 3 position holes on the a frame you can do the same, and probably move about 10-15 degrees total between top and bottom holes.<br>However when the a frame is sitting level to the gound, the fisher and I believe diamond trip edge itself have a 30 degree or so front angle to them,whereas the meyer and western and most other full trip plows will have a 5-10 degree forward angle.<br>Now I believe that the trip edge plows nned to do this, otherwise they would trip all the time, and the opposite for the full trip plows. Meaning that if the edge was at a 30degree forward angle on a full trip plow it may never trip.<br>So that being the case in my opinion the amount of attack angle that one is able to adjust on the fisher/diamond in negligable.<br>Whereas on a full trip plow the difference of even a few degrees will have a mojor impact on how it operates.<br>Any other ideas out there?<br>Dino <p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org
 

GeoffD

PlowSite.com Veteran
I think ya hit the nail on the head, with that reply Dino. Changing the pin holes does have a major impact on cutting ability, if you have never done try it. The bottom hole saves a lot of lawn damage in the spring.<p>Geoff
 

DaveO

PlowSite.com Veteran
Location
Ma.
Geoff is right. Changing the position on the A frame effects the angle of the edge. I'm not sure if this was Fisher's intended use. I believe it was done to compensate for different heights of truck chassis. But it works great for changing the angle. And like Geoff stated, the lower position is best in the warm weather..<p>Dave
 

GeoffD

PlowSite.com Veteran
Both Fisher and Western V-Plow are the same. They are built in the same factory, with the blade and a-frame and hydro system the same, what changes is the color and mounting system.<p>So getting a western won't change your angle of attack. It will give you a mounting system with big problems.<p>Geoff
 

plowking35

2000 Club Member
Location
SE CT
Actuall western installs their own trip edge. If you look closely at them, the western just has a angle base with no extended triangle trip edge. To that shorter base angle they bolt on the replaceable wear edge. By virtue of that shorter base angle the angle of attack is much more vertical. In order to duplicate that on the fisher you would have to wear their trip edge to the point where you would only have about 1.5-1.75&quot; left. At that point the spring keepers will have worn out and the trip springs will be in the last lot you plowed. Westerns trip angle has the spring keepers mounted much higher. <br>The fisher has their usual long base that you need to wear in first.<br>In fact I have a friend that has a fisher v and would like to replace his base trip edge with my western edge because of the differences.<br>Yes it is true that most of the parts are the same, but check CPW catologe and you will see way different base angles shown. And for the record the A frames are different to, along with the hinge pillar. I do have reservations about the uni mount, although I havent had any structual problems with mine. And for the record I will put a western blade up against a diamond or fisher any day.Plows better than a fisher with alot less weight when it comes to straight blades. <br>Dino<p>----------<br> Professional Ice and Snow Management <br>Products:Services:Equipment www.sima.org<p>
 
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