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A Snow/Ice Control Challenge

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by blam133, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. blam133

    blam133 Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    I work at a Semi-Conductor (computer-chip) manufacturing plant in upstate New York that presents some very challenging concerns regarding snow and ice management in the parking lots, sidewalks, hallways and inside the production line.
    The most important concern is corrosion from any type of material. Salt or any other corrosive material that's applied gets tracked inside and becomes airborn and eats the metal circuits on the chip. So , our snow management contractor can not use any type of salt.
    They were applying Calcium Chloride, that was either reacting with the wax on the floors or creating an "oily" film which made the floors extremely slippery.
    Then they switched to Magnesium Chloride. This had virtually the same results on the floors because of the oily film created.
    I also work for a landscaper part time. We have several commercial establishments that we manage. Our #1 material used is MAGIC. I thought at first that this would be the answer to the above problems but has too many negative ingredients for the computor chip plant application. It is corrosive(salt), it has magnesium chloride(which is basically what they are using now) and even in it's liquid form, MAGIG leaves on oily film.
    Does anyone know of a product the is non corrosive and does not leave an oily film ??? Help..................!!!
  2. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    Think your pretty much screwed on the melting product portion, Every product out there (to my knowledge) contains some sort of corrosive product. Might want to look into actual snow & ice melting machines, and then just applying a light layer of straight sand just for traction purposes. If I think of a better solution (after I have a cup of coffee) I will post later on. :cool:
  3. ace911emt

    ace911emt Member
    Messages: 83

    you could have the employees change shoes like Mr. Rogers?
    Is this a new plant what was done before?
    heat the sidewalks.
    unsure others say fertilizer works (never used it myself)
  4. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,236

    Nc3000 ????
  5. pbeering

    pbeering Senior Member
    Messages: 266

    The corrosion concern closely resembles the challenge the airport folks have - deicers can't eat the planes - call the local airport and find out which acetate product they are using and see if you can buy some from their supplier. Be prepared to pay a fortune - and tell the client.
  6. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717


    As far as airports, I know some use pure nitrogen 46-0-0. I'm not sure about large commercial facilities. :cool:
  7. Ian

    Ian Member
    Messages: 96

    Airports use a noncorrosive ice melt known as Urea. It is related to fertilizer and does not corrode aluminum. I work at an airport.
  8. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    They must buy in large quantities. Most urea that you or I can buy for use as an ice melter, are usually considered "agricultural grade". This is the form you would find in most commercial fertilizers, hence the reason for using a high nitrogen fertilizer as 46-0-0. Pure 100% urea is non corrosive, and lower grade shouldn't be used in a corrosive sensitive environment.

    Another product is Ethylene glycol. It is a liquid form, but honestly I have never seen the stuff.

    !!DUH!! WOW, excuse me while I pull my head out of my @ss. I actually sell this product, and it never crossed my mind. WOW, :blush2:

    We sell and use a product called Landscaper's choice ice melt. It contains CMA.

    CMA - is Calcium Magnesium Acetate. It is the safest ice melting product in the market, Non corrosive, and safe on vegetation. Bad sides, it is expensive, and doesn't work well at low temps.

    Gotcha now! What challenge? heh. :gunsfiring:
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2005
  9. krland

    krland Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    Try CMA. I have been using this with school districts in PA and some city properties as well and the tracktion and oily issues I have none. I actually used Environemlt in the past but set up this winter with a company in Bristol, PA that is an actual manufactor of Majestic Ice Melt w/CMA. Stock is not an issue. Let me know if you need a contact over there.
  10. cleancutccl

    cleancutccl Junior Member
    from 6
    Messages: 8

    Ethylene glycol is antifreeze. You will probably run into more problems taking that route.
  11. sir spaniourd

    sir spaniourd Senior Member
    Messages: 286

    Do you have any contact for Northern MA. How could I get some Majestic ice melt? How expensive is that product?
  12. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    This is probably way out of the realm of possibility, but if the company is committed to the quality of their product, and if its the type of situation where you walk in to "clean rooms" with the air purification systems and all... than they should put in heated walkways near the building and use sand out in the larger lot.
  13. Taconic

    Taconic PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 180

    what to use

    You could use NC3000 which does not have any corrosive properties at all and wont leave a greasy film on the floors.We have nc3000 available in New York. If you are interested just give us a ring
    Taconic Maintenance Inc
    John Parker
  14. blam133

    blam133 Junior Member
    Messages: 11

    In response to SIR SPANIOURD'S question looking for MAGIC in North Ma. According to www.magicsalt.com there is 4 authorized distributors in Ma.
    They are located in Ashland, Peabody, Hanover and North Hatfield. Check out their web site for contact numbers.

    John from Taconic Maint- I'll talk to you about NC3000 when we hook up next week to pick up the pusher for our Kabota...Bob from B&W (NOT Bob B.)
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2005
  15. dssxxxx

    dssxxxx Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 63

    We manufacture Majestic Melt for NSS, located in Bristol, PA. If anyone is looking for a location in NE, please pm me or email me.

    But, I will stress the following points:

    1. Urea is being used in a few of the smaller airports that do not have the $$$'s to use the "now" recommended ice melter, which is sodium acetate. Sodium Acetate is being used in Kennedy, Newark, LaGuardia and the Baltimore/Wash, DC airports. Along with many smaller airports such as Logan and Westchester.

    2. CMA - 100% is packaged in 25 kg bags (55 lbs.) and the cost is approximately $80.00 per bag. Expensive....yes. But, the only product that is Federally and FAA approved for use on new concrete. CMA melts effectively to +20 F. Sodium Acetate is the same price and melts to +5 F.

    3. Airports and DOT's also use Potassium Acetate - Liquid and a lot of people make there own liquid CMA w/potassium Acetate for a great, but expensive liquid ice melter w/ablosutely no chlorides or corrosives.
  16. fms

    fms Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 209

    Two things we did at a semiconductor plant that I worked at:
    1) Janitors were given a power broom to push the sand and salt away from the entryways at least one time per shift.
    2) Moved a shoe scrubber to the primary employee entryway.

    We also discussed mandating the use of blue booties at the entry of the plant.

    Calcium will make the floor finish on VCT flooring extremely slick. Do they have sufficient walk off mats? If you have a good scraper mat with 20' + of an absorbent mat (Supreme Nop) you should get enough of the calcium off before anyone hits the VCT.

    Any type of acetate will be a tough sell. Chances are they're extremely conscientious of chemicals going into the drains.
  17. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,236

    Actually it is corrosive to galvanized metal, very corrosive.
  18. dssxxxx

    dssxxxx Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 63

    Actually it should not be used with galvanized, zinc or brass compoments. But, other than those is completely approved for use by the FAA.
  19. The Beastmaster

    The Beastmaster Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    Liquid deicer

    Anyone thought about using propylene glycol as a deicing or pretreat agent. This is the stuff they use at airports to deice planes with, they also poor it into fire hydrants that don't drain out properly for winterization in urban areas. The stuff is pretty much non toxic and is even a listed ingredient in some softdrinks. When I was with the fire department we used it in the fire hydrants to prevent freeze up.
  20. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,236

    Actually it's extremely toxic to the environment. The airports had to install collection systems to prevent the runoff from getting into surface and\or ground water. Cost them millions of dollars.

    So I wouldn't recommend it.

    For the fire hydrants there's a thing called a pump to remove the water from the non-draining ones. At least that's what everybody uses up here.