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A small mall >need some help to bid

Discussion in 'Bidding & Estimating' started by Dumpster Guy, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. Dumpster Guy

    Dumpster Guy Member
    Messages: 74

    I will be bidding this one on a per push rate.

    It has about 70,000 Square feet of asphalt. I can do the math on shoveling the walks and stairs. But what about the numbers below

    Plowing with a small bobcat and 5500 with a blizzard 860 speed wing.
    Salting with a snow-ex 1875 tailgater.

    Plowing 3hrs?
    salting 1.5 hours including loading the tailgate

    Salt for just paved area 1400 pounds?

    Should I add an hour to deal with the random late night mall user traffic?



  2. Sealer People

    Sealer People Senior Member
    Messages: 210

    if something took me 4 hours in total to do, I would probably try for $320 - $350 each shot

    I would say about a yard of salt $ 175 ???????

    Im just getting into this business so im not the best at this im sure. But i dont think im too far off.

    good luck
  3. ScnicExcellence

    ScnicExcellence Senior Member
    Messages: 352

    if it is going to take you four hours you need more vehicles there.

    Four hours is a long time to be at one place unless it is just an employee there for you. if you only are there for four hours each time just charge them your hourly rate times four hours.

    As for salt it all depends on your price.
  4. Dumpster Guy

    Dumpster Guy Member
    Messages: 74

    Thanks for the reply. I think our rates are real different because we don't see the frequency. There are many people who just simply are not ready for it when it happens, most contractors are not willing to get the proper ins, because it might never snow here. Our rates are over $150 per hour and salt @ $375 per tonne spread

    How long to plow?
    How long to salt?

    I drove the lot as if I was plowing ad came up with these numbers, I don't have the experience to know how long to estimate and the hidden time killers?
  5. Burkartsplow

    Burkartsplow PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,246

    I have a lot that is exactly 70,000 sq ft and it takes me an hour and fifteen minutes. 1000 lbs of salt and then what ever it takes you to do the walks. hope this helps...Why does it take guys on here so long to load a tailgate salt spreader. I mean I can load ten bags in a minute or so and spread it in 5.
  6. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    if 70,000 straightforward square feet takes you 3 hours, you might think about trying something else..
    Shouldn't take much over an hour, at most 1.5 hours to plow

    Multiply times your rate.
  7. Dumpster Guy

    Dumpster Guy Member
    Messages: 74

    Burkartsplow & Brian Thanks!
    That's what i needed to understand sounds like 1.5 hours to plow Just to double check that is with just the plow right?
  8. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    1 truck, 8' with wings or better (like oh, say your blizzard :blush2:) 1 to 1.5 hours to plow

    probably 10 minutes to salt, but that's just a guess, we don't salt here.
  9. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,256

    Why is 4 hours too long for one truck? Doesn't it totally depend on the requirements\level of service that the customer is desiring?

    On edit, never mind, I checked your profile, I've been enlightened.

    I have several lots that take 4 hours to plow, with a loader and 16' pusher box. Add in setup time for a truck in that time, but it really hasn't been an issue for me. But I've only been plowing a couple years, so what do I know?

    Dumpsterguy, listen to Brian and burk, their estimates sound pretty good to me.

    On edit--DEFINITELY follow Brian and burk's advice. And don't let anyone tell you that 4 hours is ALWAYS too long for one piece of equipment, it may be, and it may not be.

    Good luck.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008
  10. Burkartsplow

    Burkartsplow PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,246

    Yeah with the plow only.8.5 with wings about an hour and half. Now the walks and the salting is up to you, But for the lot i was thinking somewhere around 1000 to 1200 lbs will do nicely for most applications. Good luck on it. Love those late request for bid packets.:salute: Im tired. was out doing a leaf cleanup. We have been having little spits here and there in cleveland the last couple of days. Only 6 more cleanups to go. I just need three semi decent days and i will be done....
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008

    MIDTOWNPC PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,556

    I imputted the numbers into my calculator and heres what comes out

    2"-4" 4"-6" 6"-8" 8"-12"
    8' Blade 2:26 3:03 3:40 4:16
    8' w/wings 2:20 3:02 3:32 4:03
    9' Blade 1:58 2:27 2:56 3:32
    9' w/wings 1:46 2:21 2:44 3:25
    10' Pushbox 0:56 1:15 1:24 1:46

    Tons Lbs. Bags
    Salt 0.47 945 18.9

    I would say that you speedwing would be more like a 9ft with wings vs an 8ft with wings cause arent they 8ft 6in?
    Then you have your bobcat making your life alot easier in the truck cause he is squareing things off so you can take longer runs ect and because of this I would say
    1.5 Hours for the Truck including the spreading and 1 Hour for the bobcat. That way any obsticles are covered and you get a better average covered on the snow falls

    If its a highly shadded area then I would up the salt 100lbs but if the sun hits the property like it looks like it does, then I would say you will have lots of salt.

    I dont charge a fee per hour to spread the salt I just charge per ton to spread or per application on the lot, spread.
  12. Dumpster Guy

    Dumpster Guy Member
    Messages: 74

    MIDTOWNPC> Thanks for the awsome reply!

    Where do I get one of those calculators?

    Yes the speedwing is 8ft7 when straight and 9'3 with the wings pinned back.

    Great reply and thanks for taking the time to work it out, someday soon I hope to help some rookie going through the same things I am going through. This site is great because of guys like youMIDTOWNPC, Burkartsplow, Mark Oomkes ,lonecowboy and all the rest of you guys I am spending good money on equipment and trying make as few mistakes as possible. We see so few snow falls here I need to be on when it does happen. Thanks again!

    What happened to that wanker "dimitrious" did hey find the wrong end of a snowblower?
  13. MnM

    MnM Senior Member
    Messages: 289

    just wondering why you went with a 860 speedwing compaired to a 8611lp or 8611. I just put a 8611lp on my 3500 and all I can say is what a beast
  14. Dumpster Guy

    Dumpster Guy Member
    Messages: 74

    - That extra 295 pounds (i have a bunch of other things pushing my GVW limits)
    - The extra money
    - 860SW was in stock, I actually don't get it installed until Friday (i will post pics)
    - simple opperation
    - I am a rookie.

    Do you think he extra 7" is worth it? (my wife does!)

    We may only get 8 Plowable events per year. (more salting though)
    How does that plow work with a 1ton? thought that would be a monster in wet snow?
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008
  15. Burkartsplow

    Burkartsplow PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,246

    those plowing hours are off. if you got them from the MD
  16. Burkartsplow

    Burkartsplow PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,246

    those plowing hours are off. if you got them from the MD snow removal site.which is what they look like dont follow them. if it takes over two hours to plow 70K with an 8.5 blade then you very unproductive. think about it as an acre an hour or a little more then an acre, depending on experience. hope you get it. put two hours worth of work if you think you need a buffer.
  17. Brant'sLawnCare

    Brant'sLawnCare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,756

    It depends on your area. But I try and figure about $100 or a little more per acre. So you have almost 2 acres to plow. So I would charge right around $200 to plow that, because you may have to come back and cleanup or something like that. I think if you have a skid and your truck there, it won't take you more than an hour, unless you let an unreasonable amount of snow pile up. Oh and another thing, you may want to figure more like $150 per acre or so, since that is your hourly cost. Good luck
  18. LawnProLandscapes

    LawnProLandscapes PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,129

    i agree, rule of them 1 acre/hour with one truck w/8 ft. blade on a mostly straight forward lot.
  19. MileHigh

    MileHigh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,827

    Thats funny, I just bought a used vee-pro salter and I'm 40 miles from you.

    MIDTOWNPC PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,556

    I actually found the code from mdsnowremoval site and had my web guy save it to a computer for me to use. It has been pretty acurate, (no one said I can't outperform it) and sure an acre and hour is resonable however I have always priced with the numbers I stated because it leaves you with a buffer for the random 3 cars in the lot, or if you get 12 events at 2inces vs 6 events at 1ft. The time that I stated is my mark, if I can out perform my mark then good for me, it means I have a little more time. I also use that calulator and have found that with my bobcat and my truck on the same site that the times are very accurate (the bobcat is slower and the truck is faster) and so it has worked very well for me. As the larger snowfalls come I have found the numbers are off but that is why I always use the middle number as my average. I figure with the law of averages I have a solid safe bet. I base my prices on the hourly rate that I want to make.
    So what I stated in my reply was
    1.5 Hours for the Truck including the spreading and 1 Hour for the bobcat.
    those are what I would base my billing at. So take the hourly rate you want for each machine and do the math.

    This has worked for me for 4 years, I give a price this way and then I give the option for a seasonal and I base it upon 25 events. They can choose. When I price salt, I give the price at per event. Sometimes it needs more sometimes it needs less. There is lots of room on salt.