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$2000/Mo for a K mart parking lot. 7 month contract.

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself to the Community' started by DesMoines2500, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. DesMoines2500

    DesMoines2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 118

    This is an offer a local Kmart has out there though may. Does this sound reasonable? I'm short on specifics about the lot itself.
  2. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

    With no specifics yeah sounds like a great price. Good.post!
  3. NorthernSvc's

    NorthernSvc's Senior Member
    Messages: 781

    sign it sounds like a great deal....for them
  4. John143

    John143 Senior Member
    from NEPA PA
    Messages: 254

    Are you sure it isn't a 1 year contract? I know K-Marts in my area are doing $2000.00 a month for 12 months with the option to re-new the following year providing you have a min, of 3 slip and falls with at least 2 insurance cancellations. They are also offering a added $1000.00 dollar bonus for complete no shows. Sounds like a good deal to me!! Id take their offer.
  5. got-h2o

    got-h2o 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,440

    IDK how big the lots are by you, but ours are pretty large. Even at $2k for 12mos, snow only, a low cap, and not including salt there's no way I would touch it.

    That being said.......a brief rant. These lowball cheap prices are getting redic. They set the bar for years ahead, b/c the people that don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground when it comes to buisness will do it for less and less money. (No offense to the OP here). For instance..........2 yrs ago I did a larger property. Per the customers requirements it was a 40" cap. I bid $64k per season, over a 5 month period. It went above the cap, I billed an extra month, yada yada. They paid, no ?'s asked and all was well.

    Now the good part.......................a scumbag I happen to know, went and did some digging. He harped on them, and found out my #'s. He then bids unlimited for $32k per year. Literally half. We didn't barely get any snow the following year, he did a horse sh!t job when he did show up, and still managed to bank on the deal. Mind you the year before, we worked our a$$es off for the $ and made an honest day's living. BUT......now, even though they were unhappy with the service, he "proved" that it could be done for less money. He was stupid enough to leave $$ on the table just to get the work. He lucked out, but screwed up the market from that point on. This year they took bids and didn't even consider looking at anything within reason.

    Snow has got to be one of the only business that works for less and less money every year. I've lost smaller properties ofer $10-15 before. Why is it every year we have to LOWER our prices, as fuel, employee pay, etc goes up?!

    *rant off
  6. DesMoines2500

    DesMoines2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 118

    Thanks for the responses and yes, I'm an idiot when it comes to plowing and I know it. I wish I had more specifics, but this was passed down from a friend. I basically bought a plow this year to do a few rental properties I own and I have a buddy that gets laid off every year once it snows who will use it to make cash on the side.

    He brought this $2000/mo contract to my attention and seemed really pumped about it. I cautioned that this is a bigger job than he can handle and t's not even particularly close to his house. I'm mostly looking for reasons to talk him out of it.

    Here's an Arial view of the lot with scale. Approx 12,000 sq meters, 130,000 sqft

    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
  7. got-h2o

    got-h2o 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,440

    Ok so that's about 3ac.........much smaller than ours locally. Looks like a pretty easy push. If it's a typical 5mo contract I'd probably pass on it, especially if there's no cap on the total accumulation. If it's 7 like you think, you're getting closer in pricing. Assuming you're salting, use 6-800lbs per ac in your calculating. I'm not going to do actual #s for you b/c there are way too many factors involved with different regions, but you should be able to figure out what your time is worth, what salt costs, how long it will take, and the amount of snow you get annually.

    To me it's still low, but I'm also not one guy in a truck. I have a lot more overhead, but its also something I could knock out in less than a couple hours. 1 or 2 trucks could not. NOW finally, make sure you are capable of doing it........under ALL circumstances. If you get hit with a 2' blizzard, will you be able to keep up? Is your truck capable of moving large amounts of snow? Are you qualified enough in a truck to handle something like this? Are you properly insured? I assume an account like this will have a 1 over 2 mil requirement for contractors insurance, and probably comp. 500k over 1mil if you're lucky.

    And trust me, this is advice, not criticism. I just want you to be prepared. Large lots and good money look good. But you'll bury yourself if you're not prepared for the worst.
  8. John143

    John143 Senior Member
    from NEPA PA
    Messages: 254

    Do you guys have any loaders? A 7.6 foot plow isn't going to cut it! How about insurance? Got any? How many ton's of rock salt do you guys have stored? How many pallets of calcium do you have? How many guys do you have on your sidewalk crew? Do they all have workers comp? How many V-Box salt spreaders do you guys have lined up for this account? Do you have a quad with a plow for the walks?

    Not to be rude but it does not sound like you even have 1 tenth of the equipment needed for this account nor do you have the experience needed to handle a K-mart. Start off with some neighbors driveways first! Then move to a church parking lot or something a little bigger. Be advised taking on account such as a K-mart with no equipment and no experience only adds up to one thing! And it's not a big pay check! Lawsuit anyone? And you won't be the one doing the suing!! Say bye bye to you house and cars, trucks and your one (1) 7.6 foot plow!! Good luck!!
  9. DesMoines2500

    DesMoines2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 118

    Based on what you're saying this is a non starter. We may be able to piggy back on subbing out as just one truck on it though. We don't even own a salter/sander.

    Thanks for the thoughtful reply. The truck is a 2000 Sierra 2500 with 175,000 miles and a 7.5' straight plow. I envisioned this truck just doing some light subbing or driveways to make some extra cash. My "partner" is more optimistic, unrealistically so IMO.

    Thanks again.
  10. DesMoines2500

    DesMoines2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 118

    Haha Thanks. This is exactly the type of response I was looking for!
  11. Wilnip

    Wilnip Senior Member
    Messages: 592

    Subbing that truck is the way to go. You will learn a lot by doing so and may be able to save some money for another truck next year. One other concern I didn't see anyone mentioning is what happens when you have a breakdown? Would you have someone else to cover the property? I just landed a 3 acre property. I have 3 trucks and a relationship with 2 other plowing companies that could lend a hand when needed and I'm still nervous. Growth is great if it's controlled.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
  12. got-h2o

    got-h2o 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,440

    Honestly I like your response. A lot of first timers would argue that they can do it regardless of what us seasoned plowers have to say.

    What type of connection do you have with them? Is it just your local store or is your buddy connected to them district wide, or even nationally?
  13. DesMoines2500

    DesMoines2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 118

    I really appreciate these replies. FWIW, you're preaching to the choir at this point.

    KISS, Keep it simple stupid is my personal motto, the responses here are exactly what I was looking for to reinforce my gut that he was attempting to bit off WAY more than we could chew.
  14. TPC Services

    TPC Services Senior Member
    Messages: 875

    Whereas this one at, is it out by Jordan Creek Mall? I have a friend that plows two of them already and he's at a lot more a month then that. It’s kind of strange that this one didn’t go through corporate; I know they asked him for pricing not the other way around. The contract he’s under is a 5 month and they are at a 1” snow fall call out. My question to you or your friend is how you plan on salting that lot without any equipment? Just to throughout a rough average $$ for salt most contractors around here are close to $200 a ton so around $600 a snow event times at least ten runs and you’ll be at $6000 that leaves you $4000 to plow a minim 10 events for that place, if you don’t get call backs to re salt. So you’re anywhere from $400 or less to plow that place a snow storm. By the ways that looks to me and I know people will be different on time frame but we would be 2.5-3.5 hrs per truck for that lot with V plows 7’6” will take you a little bit longer. They are a salt only place. WALK AWAY! l'm with the others on here, if you or him have never plowed than how do you know how to plow it correctly? Not trying to be a smart butt but like the others have already said I would sub out this year and learn about where to pile snow, looking where the refreeze areas may occur and so on.... That place will be a slip and fall nightmare and if you get one claim you may end up losing everything!!
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
  15. John143

    John143 Senior Member
    from NEPA PA
    Messages: 254

    Agree 100%!!! :nod:
  16. gwhalen3

    gwhalen3 Member
    Messages: 99

    pass my man.
  17. Wiedmann

    Wiedmann Member
    Messages: 67

    Did you end up tossing a bid out there for this Kmart? lol
  18. Spool it up

    Spool it up Senior Member
    Messages: 912

    Spools seasonal prices are listed below , labor and material incl. from Dec.1,2012-April 1,2013

    for 2000 sq. ft. in Buffalo

    20,000 sq. ft. in Phila

    40,000 sq. ft. in Kentucky

    166 acres in South Fla.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  19. badgerman

    badgerman Member
    Messages: 32

    For this price i would walk away also, However i plow a kmart it is not my account but i take care of this lot alone in just my truck it is very similar to this lot minis the curb island's and from start to finish on 3 inch event it takes 2 1/2 hours in a truck with 8 foot straight blade. when we get blizzard events its go time all day nonstop by the time you get lot done you need to start over at front again. in an event if you waited till you have 6 inches it wouldnt work so well this is where you would need a loader. but yes in 3 inch storm im leaving in 2 1/2 hours to do other accts.. its all about efficiency less backing up u do the better and faster it is, cant plow snow going backwards not only is it waste of time which equals $ but waste of fuel also.. but dont take this job your not equipped for it. The guy who im subbed to for this acct has big loader which usually stays at walmart but on a big event he'll bring it down to kmart.. to risky not having equipment
  20. chachi1984

    chachi1984 Senior Member
    Messages: 416

    since you havent plowed before best to pass, but prob could be done with 2 trucks with atleast expandable plows, vbox salter,blowers.
    but for 2000 a month and 2 guys not enough money