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Xtreme woes with my XtremeV

Discussion in 'Fisher Engineering Discussion' started by 2COR517, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Many of you know how unhappy I am with my Fisher XtremeV I purchased two years ago. I have had numerous issues with the plow, but this thread will focus on the center pin/wing hinge. My dealer has done a great job getting my problems taken care of. I had my third hinge pin installed this fall.

    At the very end of the first season 07/08, around April, I broke the original center pin in half. The pin was replaced, along with the drivers side wing. I had been expecting it, in fact I was in the shop in February, they looked it over and ordered parts.

    Plowed all last season, no issues. For reference, I did about 2/3 the plowing as the 07/08 season. Dropped the plow off at the dealer in April to take care of a few minor things. They looked it all over, I needed a new T-frame, passenger side wing, and a new pin. Again. Picked the plow up this fall, all ready to go. I had been assured by the dealer and Fisher that the new pin, stamped BM HT, has been hardened even more than the second pin, quality control had been improved, and there shouldn't be any more trouble.

    I have done very little plowing so far this year. Two storms. One was three inches of powder, and I only plowed half my route. My route is smaller than last year. And because it's early in the season, I plowed very slowly, and no stacking.

    Today I installed a new set of cutting edges. I decided to take the pin out to see how it looked. I was very disappointed. It is already bent. The first two pics show the bend. The bottom end is bent close to an eighth inch. In addition, on the third pic you can see radial scratching on the pin. This pin is supposed to be hardened, but is already showing severe scratching from the wings pivoting back and forth.

    Disclaimer - my "dimensions" for Boss hinges are estimates based on me eyeballing the plows a couple times this summer. If I am incorrect, please let me know.

    The fourth pic shows the entire hinge section, and the first half of the problem. The green arrow is the drivers side wing. The distance from the upper to lower bearing surfaces against the pin is about 8 inches. The wing is 51 inches long. This is a tremendous amount of leverage. If you compare this to a Boss hinge for example, the distance from the highest to lowest bearing surface is at least double. That reduces the pressure against the pin by half.

    The fifth pic is a detail of the upper hinge connection, and shows the second half of the problem. The blue arrow is the section where the pass side wing connects with the pin. The blue arrow is a little better than an inch. If you look inside the red oval, you can see a weld. That connection between wing and pin is actually made of two separate pieces of steel. The lower piece is welded to the wing, the upper piece - the yellow arrow - is welded to the lower piece. The bore of the lower section is bigger than the top section. So the top section is the only area that wears against the pin. It's about a half inch. If you compare this to the Boss hinge, again, you will see that where the Boss hinge sections connect to the center pin, there is at least an inch and a half, if not two inches, of contact with the pin. This reduces the pressure by at least 2/3.

    So - I feel this continual pin issue is simply due to a poor design. Combining the short distance between bearing surfaces, and the smaller bearing surfaces, the contact pressure on the pin is easily six times greater than the Boss. It's actually much greater than that, because the Boss uses a continuous piano hinge design, spreading the weight and force of the wing over the entire pin. In addition, the Boss hinge is drilled to be greased, the Fisher hinge is not designed to be lubricated.

    I understand I bought a brand new plow design. And I also understand that what looks good on an engineer's calculator may not work so well in the "real world". What I do not understand is why Fisher will not take responsibility for the problem, and redesign the hinge.

    At this point, I feel my only option is to pull the pin after each storm, and replace it if it is bent.

    Thanks for tuning in :D

    12.28.09 Bent Pin 1.jpg

    12.28.09 Bent Pin 2.jpg

    12.28.09 Bent Pin 3.jpg

    12.28.09 Hinge Detail2.jpg

    12.28.09 Hinge Detail.jpg

    12.28.09 Bent Pin 1.jpg

    12.28.09 Bent Pin 2.jpg

    12.28.09 Bent Pin 3.jpg

    12.28.09 Hinge Detail2.jpg

    12.28.09 Hinge Detail.jpg
     
  2. ColumbiaLand

    ColumbiaLand Senior Member
    Messages: 790

    Should have bought a boss....:jester::jester::jester::jester:
     
  3. Snow Miser

    Snow Miser Senior Member
    Messages: 104

    Wow that is ridiculous, I can't believe that pin has gone bad that many times. I wonder if you just got lemon or your just having a lot of bad luck. I say this because I've ran 4 9.5' fisher xtreme v's for the two seasons now on my 2005 International 4300's and the only problem I've ever had with them is on two of my plows the top seal on the lift ram leaked but that was just a $10 fix.
     
  4. mycirus

    mycirus Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 589

    Exactly how fast are you hitting the piles?
     
  5. RacingZR

    RacingZR Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 399

    I noticed on mine that they did liberally grease the pin. Of course, it has to be pulled to get more grease on it. We'll see how it holds up..........sorry to hear of all your issues!
     
  6. plowguy43

    plowguy43 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,269

    I'll answer like a Fisher Engineer- That was caused by abuse, not design!

    Those tolerances seem like they should be tighter- maybe look towards the red one's then?
     
  7. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Well, I only set the airbag off once...:laughing:

    That's interesting. I greased mine, and am going to thread in some zerk fittings......
     
  8. plowguy43

    plowguy43 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,269

    Maybe your level isn't completely level?
     
  9. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Do you know what your weight is when plowing?
     
  10. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    It may not be level, but it's straight;)
     
  11. Camden

    Camden PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,598

    What's the lifespan of those center pins supposed to be? I know the answer depends on how much plowing a person does but let's just assume it's nothing excessive.

    Any idea?
     
  12. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    I've never seen any "advertised data" They're less than 20 bucks are far as I know, so it's not a huge expense. But it's a nuisance. And ridiculous to be considering replacing it every storm.

    Maybe some Amsoil fluid would help? :realmad::waving:
     
  13. Snow Miser

    Snow Miser Senior Member
    Messages: 104

    not exactly sure what the total weight of my truck but I usually have at least 2-3 yards of salt to weigh down the back end for traction and have plowed with as much as 7 yards of salt in the truck here is a pic of one of my trucks so you can see for yourself
    100_2469.jpg

    100_2469.jpg
     
  14. plowguy43

    plowguy43 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,269

    How many driveways do you have?
     
  15. Camden

    Camden PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,598

    If you want a sure-fire way of making sure your plow will never work properly again just introduce Amsoil into the equation.
     
  16. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    And for a lousy $20 you know they're nothing special.

    Or they're making it up in sheer sales volume. :D
     
  17. tawilson

    tawilson Senior Member
    Messages: 218

    Maybe it is made to be softer than the wing hinges so it wears instead of the hinge?
     
  18. cubanb343

    cubanb343 Senior Member
    from ERIE
    Messages: 637

    I don't understand why Fisher changed the hinge design from the EZ-V. Those plows were hinged like the boss..
     
  19. Thanks for the heads up on the pin.
    As a result of your thread I pulled the pin out of my western yesterday. When I checked it on a straight edge it was fine but I was surprised there was very little lube on it.

    I had little wear marks but nothing like you did. It does seem like soft steel but that could be because the engineers wanted the pin to wear before the plow fittings. I don't have the tools at home to check the Rockwell hardness. It should have grease fittings but I imagine that was a bean counter decision. Perhaps I'll make up a greaseable pin on the lathe with outlet ports at the friction points.

    Greased it up good with Mobil 1 synthetic grease and put it back in. Have to keep a eye on it.
     
  20. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Are you thinking to center bore the pin? Zerk fitting on top? When I first bought the plow that was my initial reaction to the setup. Would need to modify the center divider that holds the pin down so you can get to the fitting.

    I was thinking to put the zerks in the wings themselves. Probably need six.