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Why should I Idemnify and DEFEND?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Mick76, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    Just got a RFQ from AGMG (but they all have the same language)... We as the contractor are essentually subs for these nationals.... call it what you will.... These nationals are the ones holding these contracts and making some pretty good coin off of our backs (don't kid yourselves, you know they are) ..... why, why, why, why when these nationals are the contract holders should I Idemnify (Hold Harmless) and DEFEND these contract holders? Your subs of these companies people! Do you have your subs sign these type of contracts with you or are you the one, when the crap hits the fan, holding the bag?

    Something to think about.....
     
  2. hoskm01

    hoskm01 Senior Member
    from AZ
    Messages: 475

    You SHOULD have your subs sign those kind of contracts, if you're smart.

    Do you operate recklessly? Do you create hazardous situations? No? Then what do you have to worry about?
     
  3. NickT

    NickT Senior Member
    Messages: 707

    Subscribed
     
  4. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985




    The problem when you sign these sorts of Contracts with USM,AMG or who ever the company is.....You are held to Their service standards on said Property....Most National Do not want to pay for a Zero or near Zero tolerance on these Retail commercial propertys....So what ends up happening is some toothless, chain smoking,Drunkin Hillbilly walking in to the Walmart Slips or Claims to Slip and You and your Company are the Only ones left Hold the Bag......Not AMGM, Not Walmart...You....The contracts are Very one sided and Protect the National Very Well...Not You.....I do Agree you shoud have your Subs sign them....But, Poop rolls down hill and We as the end Contractors sometimes end up paying a hefty price for dealing with these "Nationals"
     
  5. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    Matt, How did I know you'd chime in?...LOL... I have nothing to worry about because I don't work for these people (but I like to know what their bidding on).... The thing is with these crazy contracts your held liable for ANYTHING , even if its not in your control... ie at one of the seminars last yeat in RI there was a contractor that signed a SNOWREMOVAL contract Nov 15th.... keep in mind it hadn't snowed yet.... a customer slip and fell on WET LEAVES Nov 17th and you guessed it, because that contractor signed that foolish contract that woman was awarded $40K.... I'll say it again, your held liable for ANYTHING , NOT THE CONTRACT HOLDER (IE NATIONAL), you AS as the SUB are the one getting the screw put too you....
    I couldn't have said it any better.... When are we getting together for a beer?....LOL
     
  6. csi.northcoast

    csi.northcoast Senior Member
    Messages: 320

    As always matson is right on ..... the real problem is the "defend" part... it mean ( as matson points out so eloquettly... toothless drunkin hillbilly) sues ... you must foot the bill to defend... (even if the case is later dropped, you are spending the cash for an legal defense. also if you show this contract to your insurance co. you will probally be dropped. i would like to have a beer too....
     
  7. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    all of us contractors should insist that these contract clauses should read more like "and the contractor agrees to idemnify and defend the contract holder (and client) from any action due to the action or negligence of the contractor" seems a load more fair doesn't it.
     
  8. csi.northcoast

    csi.northcoast Senior Member
    Messages: 320

    all of us contractors should insist that these contract clauses should read more like "and the contractor agrees to idemnify and defend the contract holder (and client) from any action due to the action or negligence of the contractor" seems a load more fair doesn't it. - buckwheat

    The problem with that is the defend part... who is going to decide at the onset whose is at fault. The nationals walk into a meeting with their clients and say , "on top of keeping your snow cost down, you don't have to worry about any liabilities from law suits, thus lowering the stores exposure to legal expenses. It weould be everyone contractor best interest to strike that out of the contract prior to signing
     
  9. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    On a side note, Have any of you got the RFQ from AGMG? AGMG now wants you to carry 2 million in GL policy (wonder what happened there)..... So lets see : They pay bad, Make you wait 45-90 days for your cash, your left holding the bag should ANYTHING happen, and now they want to increase your insurance rates...... Where do I sign up?!......LOL

    Are you guys finding the increased insurance requirement, is going to be the status quo for the other NSP?
     
  10. Camden

    Camden PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,598

    2 million has been the norm around my area for a while. I'm not just talking about NSPs either, every bank I work for wants that amount as well.
     
  11. CGM Inc.

    CGM Inc. PlowSite Veteran
    from Ontario
    Messages: 3,589

    Same up here or even more! 3-5 million is more common.
     
  12. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    2 million has been a norm here too, for a long time now
     
  13. mullis56

    mullis56 Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 824

    5 million here....
     
  14. cpmi

    cpmi Senior Member
    from CT
    Messages: 162

    $ 2 million policy is the bare minimum for the commercials in my area.
     
  15. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    Wow, You guys got me thinking so I went back a few years. 1 Million with a 2 million aggregate seems to have been the norm around here for awhile....... USM last year wanted the 1 million 2 million agg for doing our local wally world........Heck even that wonderful NSP level one maint only wanted 500K a few years back.
     
  16. CGM Inc.

    CGM Inc. PlowSite Veteran
    from Ontario
    Messages: 3,589

    we stocked up to 5 million even so most of our clients ask for 2 million. for the couple hundret dollars it is added protection towards me.
     
  17. swtiih

    swtiih PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,179

    From what I have read over the years I say it is to much of a headache to work for a national.
    I would have to be very very desperate for work to work for them
     
  18. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985



    Its a Very Large Headache to work for them.....But, in alot of Markets they are the Ball game...Its sad but true....On top of that...With this Economy we have nowadays..We have ALOT of Desperate Contractors willing to go Broke plowing Snow....:confused:
     
  19. robtown

    robtown Junior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 16

    It seems like it would be easier to create another company in a tax friendly state that didn't allow easy lawsuits and have that company sign the contracts. Than sub the work to you with a held harmless agreement.

    The fake company wouldn't. Have any assets or profit so who cares if it folds.
     
  20. Superior L & L

    Superior L & L PlowSite Veteran
    from MI
    Messages: 3,039

    For what it's worth I've heard that agmg is one of the better nationals to work for , with fair prices and good terms