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Wheel loaders starts, runs a few minutes & stalls. ?

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by RLM, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    We have been fighting with our 2007 Hyundai 740 all season, it has a 5.9 Cummings. Intermitently it will start fine, then a shortly after (varies from seconds to minutes) will stall. It then will restart but it is a fight to get it restarted, it cranks over fine (if the batteries don't go dead) just doesn't fire. We had dealer change lift pump & fuel filter, we have been using powerservice in fuel, draining water separator regularly (very frequently). It did it again this morning, we added a powerservice cleaner as well & 5 gallons of kerosene to the 60 gallons in the tank. Once its restarted it will run fine the rest of the day. Again this isn't every day some times it happens two back to back days...other times its good for 5 days with no issues.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  2. fireball

    fireball PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 536

    it sounds like a fuel problem, sounds like when they changed filter, they didn't bleed and prime the system the right way. I would probably change out all 60 gallons of fuel. Mixing in 10 gallons of kero doesn't cure much if you got another 50 gallons of waxy sludge
     
  3. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,868

    Not sure what a Cummings is, or how old your Cummings is, but have you checked the fuel shut-off solenoid on your Cummins? I had one that was creating a hard start, similar to what you are talking about. Try zip tying it open and see if it does it.

    Then again, this will only work on a Cummins.
     
  4. fhafer

    fhafer Member
    Messages: 66

    You have air intrusion. To verify you'll need to spin off the fuel filter...if it's draining back into the fuel tank it will not be full. Also, check under the maching for any leaking fuel.

    What's happening is the machine is starting off the fuel in the injection pump, but it's sucking air out of the fuel filter. You will then have to crank the heck out of it until the fuel filter and injection pump are filled with fuel again; then it will restart and run fine untill the machine sits and the fuel leaks back again.

    Check this the manufacturer to see if there is a check valve in the fuel delivery system designed to prevent leak-back. If there is one you should check it for proper operation. Also check the gasket in your fuel filter and replace it if it is not in good shape. Air can leak in without leaving a trace of fuel at the leak site.

    Just a few thoughts.
     
  5. fhafer

    fhafer Member
    Messages: 66

    I need to add...do the fuel filter check after it has been sitting for a day or two and before you try cranking it. Also note the fuel level in the tank when it does and does not happen. Good luck.
     
  6. ServiceOnSite

    ServiceOnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 935

    I would say the same as above with air getting into your fuel supply lines. I had that happen to me on my New Holland. It was a night mare finding it. It was a hair line crack in the plastic fuel return line.
     
  7. SHAWZER

    SHAWZER PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,152

    I know you said the lift pump was replaced , my 5.9 cummins done the same thing . Put on a inline electric fuel pump bypassing the lift pump and everything is good now. Thumbs Up
     
  8. leolkfrm

    leolkfrm PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,427

    what brand of filters are you using, seems the napa are a little finer, switched to Baldwin and knock on wood...it seems better....has the problem been with the below 0 temps?
     
  9. fhafer

    fhafer Member
    Messages: 66

    An electric fuel pump is a great way to eliminate air intrusion problems and it makes it easier to find the leak site. Install the electric pump as far back in the fuel system as possible...close to the fuel tank is best. Power it off of a keyed-hot circuit. Make sure you by-pass the mechanical lift pump...you can develop a leak in the diaphragm lift pump and fill your crankcase with diesel. Use a filter on the suction side of the pump. Most modern diesels are going to this type of fuel delivery system now. I carry a spare pump in my kit bag.
     
  10. SHAWZER

    SHAWZER PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,152

    Another thread we never here the outcome ?
     
  11. fhafer

    fhafer Member
    Messages: 66

    He's had two Nor'Easters in the last 48 hours...I suspect he's pushing snow.
     
  12. Whiffyspark

    Whiffyspark 2000 Club Member
    from SOMD
    Messages: 2,402

    Air usually works out once it's running. At least on trucks it does
     
  13. SHAWZER

    SHAWZER PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,152

    My mistake , did not look at where he is from.
     
  14. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    Between pushing snow & sub zero temps I haven't addressed it. It was snowing lightly this am, now its sunny, supposed to warm up next few days. It still starts its just a fight. I don't believe in tearing something apart while it is still functioning & may be needed, just in case I make the issue worse. I'm hopefully going out to the dealer to grab filters today, see if there are any anti siphon valves, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  15. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    I talked to mechanic at dealership when getting filters. He said start with the basics, blow out the vent tube for fuel tank if it has iced up, or gotten plugged it will form a vacum in the fuel tank which will draw the fuel back out of engine. Also said to check the glass on fuel/water seperator to see if there are any air bubbles while running. Yesterday it did same thing when I started it even though temps were 45-50 degeees. I blew out the vent, & checked glass-no air bubbles. Going to wait a day or two to see if it happens again. He said they have installed a check valve in some machines to solve this same issue, will sell me the part at cost & show me where to install it, or do it when they have a truck in area at cost of part (no labor).
     
  16. maxwellp

    maxwellp PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,112

    I put my money on a very small air leak in a return line. It may not even leak fuel. My truck did this took some time to find it.
     
  17. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    No leaks to be found the machine was running in the same spot for at least an hour closer to two while we changed the cutting edges on my Artic pusher, every blot was a battle to get off. We looked for leaks, in the engine area with a glashlight, on the ground, it was wet, no rainbows or anything.
     
  18. fhafer

    fhafer Member
    Messages: 66

    An air leak doesn't always show up as a visable fuel leak. You can disconnect the fuel supply line coming out of the fuel tank and rig up an electric fuel pump taking suction from a five gallon can; Mr gasket sells diesel rated pumps for around fifty bucks. Next you'll want to break the return line from the engine in the same area. Install a clear plastic tube a foot or so long into the return line so it forms a loop. Power up the electric fuel pump and watch for a slug of air/air bubbles to pass through the loop of clear hose.

    To find a leak you can add a leak indicating flurescent dye to your fuel, dead-head the return line, pressureize the fuel system with the electric pump, and then search with a black light for the dye. Here's the dye I've uesd in the past. Good luck.

    Tracerline Dye-Lite TP-3700
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  19. fhafer

    fhafer Member
    Messages: 66

  20. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    We have been out 3 times now since I blew out the line, the issue seems gone, machine has run flawless.