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What's it called when...

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Lawn Lad, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. Lawn Lad

    Lawn Lad Senior Member
    Messages: 407

    Odd question....

    Is there a technical word for when the salt granule turns into a liquid brine when moisture is introduced? What is the process called when it is turning from solid to liquid form (even though technically salt is not turning into a liquid)?

  2. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    Would it not be dissolving ?

    dis·solve ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-zlv)
    v. dis·solved, dis·solv·ing, dis·solves
    v. tr.
    To cause to pass into solution: dissolve salt in water.
    To reduce (solid matter) to liquid form; melt.
    To cause to disappear or vanish; dispel.
    To break into component parts; disintegrate.
    To bring to an end by or as if by breaking up; terminate.
    To dismiss (a legislative body, for example): dissolved parliament and called for new elections.
    To cause to break down emotionally or psychologically; upset.
    To cause to lose definition; blur; confuse: “Morality has finally been dissolved in pity” (Leslie Fiedler).
    Law. To annul; abrogate.
  3. Lawn Lad

    Lawn Lad Senior Member
    Messages: 407

    sometimes I feel like such an idiot... glad i can bare all for everyone to see. Thanks Chris.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2003
  4. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    It kinda threw me off for a second,as my brain was looking for some big scientific term.After I stopped trying to hard,it just hit me.
  5. snowjoker

    snowjoker Senior Member
    Messages: 283

    Dam Chris .... You are also a walking dictionary too!!!!:drinkup: :drinkup: Cool beans!:D
  6. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    The granular product is going "into solution" by disolving in the liquid (H2O) that is introduced to the granular product. Sodium Chloride (rock salt) will only stay "in solution" to 23% (by weight), then it begins to settle out (which is the white residue you see on parking lots the next day).
  7. Lawn Lad

    Lawn Lad Senior Member
    Messages: 407

    Okay... maybe I can save a little face by making this a little more educational.

    Do all ice control chemicals get activated by moisture? For instance, salt lowers the freezing point of water - and for it to work, a brine solution is created when water disolves the salt. Calcium draws in moisture (humidity or snow) and then creates heat through a chemical reaction - is there a "brine" solution created with calcium chloride"

    My question then is by type of de-icer, how are they activated?

    Dale Keep talked about eutectic (spelling?) temperature in his seminar. I think this is the effective temperature for a particular temperature at a particular % solution, am I correct? Where can I find a list of available products with characteristics for each? Any sources? Or should I research each product with their manufacturer or point of origin?

    Are there any ice control products that don't work off of moisture?
  8. snowplowjay

    snowplowjay Banned
    Messages: 890

    Eutectic is defined as a three-phase reaction in which one liquid phase solidifies to produce two solid phases.

    It is usually a reaction that is part of the solidification process. Alloys used for casting or soldering often take advantage of the low melting point of the eutectic reaction.

    A eutectoid reaction is a completely solid-state reaction.

    Well that is my engineering knowledge put to use for you as to defining what a Eutectic is. I don't think its gonna help explain too much to you though :( sorry.

    I got excited when I saw a Engineering term that I recognized on the site and had to jump on it :)

    Check out this website. This surely will help you. http://cmex.coginst.uwf.edu/CMEX/data/catalog/RecentToCurrentWaterAct/Brines.html

    Last edited: Sep 8, 2003
  9. BRL

    BRL PlowSite.com - Veteran
    Messages: 1,277

    Here's our use of the word, vs that boring engineering definition ;) This is from the this page at the Salt Institute web site: http://www.saltinstitute.org/kirchner-1.html
    There are tons of other links & pages at their site that can help with these questions as well. I didn't look at the page Jay posted, so I'm not sure if the info is duplicated.

    "Claims of low temperature effectiveness can be misleading. Manufactures' claims of low temperature effectiveness often are based on the theoretical lowest temperature to which the deicer can suppress the freezing point of water -- called the eutectic temperature. However, this temperature can only be reached at the ideal percent concentration of the deicer in water. All other concentrations will have higher freezing points.
    Because all deicers become increasingly diluted as they melt ice and snow, they remain at their ideal ice melting concentration only very briefly. Consequently, eutectic temperature has little bearing on real-life deicing conditions.
    A more realistic measure of a deicer's low temperature performance is called the "practical working temperature." This generally is accepted as the lowest temperature at which sufficient deicing action is evident within a reasonable time. "
  10. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327


    What BRL said.....
  11. digger242j

    digger242j Senior Member
    Messages: 672

    So, in more simple terms, when speaking of rock salt and snow the eutectic temperature is the point at which you go from salt water (brine), to "salty ice" (a solid), and leftover salt crystals (another soild), right, Jay? (BTW, you are beginning to sound frighteningly educated.) :) Which is why more salt doesn't really do any more good, right?

    In answer to the original question, I'd use "the brinification process". (If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with BS... ) :)
  12. snowplowjay

    snowplowjay Banned
    Messages: 890

    LOL Digger. I shocked myself when I pulled all that information about Eutectics and Eutectoids out of my knowledge base. Its scary what this "College Education" stuff does for a guys head LOL.

  13. digger242j

    digger242j Senior Member
    Messages: 672

    Yeah, Jay. I wasn't sure whether to be dazzled or baffled.... :)