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What would you use

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Theshoemaker, Aug 29, 2010.

?

Which Average for Seasonal

  1. Use weather service avg. 56.9

    9.1%
  2. Use 5 year average 68.0

    36.4%
  3. Use Ten year average 77.26

    54.5%
  4. Use 6 year average 76.95

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    I'm trying to figure out "average snowfall" in my area, they claim avg. 56.9. I have run the last 5 years and got 76.9 and last 6 years and got 76.95 just looking for suggestions as which would be best for formulating seasonal contract.
     
  2. csi.northcoast

    csi.northcoast Senior Member
    Messages: 320

    the average snowfall they use is for all winters since record are kept. you can look that up under NOAA website for cleveland and it will tell you snowfall for that year and biggest snowfall that year. also it will be from usually the airport (Hopkins) but as you know 10 -20 miles in either direction in cleveland can mean a huge difference in white stuff
     
  3. kcplowman

    kcplowman Member
    Messages: 63

    I would get the last 5 years snow fall totals and throw out the high one and the low one and average the 3 that are left. They called that something in math class but I can't remember what it was called.
     
  4. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    Thanks guys for the imput
     
  5. lilweeds

    lilweeds PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,178

    I wouldn't use an average. Figure out the median amount of snow. That would be take the last 20 years and find the most common amount.
     
  6. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    So, if i had a one inch trigger using a median amount of 62" i can proably figure on pushing 60 times a season?? Does this seem right?
     
  7. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985



    If you had 60- 1" snow falls..Based on Your snowfall data for your area......Which would be doubtful....:confused:
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  8. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    cant you take the number of pushes for a 2" trigger and x2 to get a 1" trigger amount of pushes??
     
  9. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    What happens if you get a 30 inch storm and 5 6 inch storms.?
     
  10. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985



    Your trigger is just your starting point......Say you have a 2" trigger you start plowing at 2"....You plow the site one time and its snowing the whole time.....You plow it again....You might get 2 or 3 pushes or more in a 10" snowfall.....
     
  11. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    If i did my calculations correct when bidding, i would take my chances and hope it would even out throughout the season
     
  12. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    I'm just trying to eliminate as much risk out of a seasonal as i can, i know they are a huge gamble.... But that's the risk i will take, just like if it doesn't snow and the client took a chance. I know you can put caps on # of plows or snowfall amounts, put i guess i'm oldschool because i belive a seasonal should be one set price no matter if you get 1 inch or 1,000. Now salt on the other hand..... I would try my best to sell as per application.
     
  13. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    Are you really old school? Are you really into risk taking? Why don't you find out EXACTLY what your prospect wants in terms of service and agree to provide it at a reasonable price, Not really much of a gamble unless you're worried about not getting any snow. IMO, that would be old school. I consider myself "old school", I work hourly much to the consternation of many folks on PS. I'm OK w/ that, I want whats best for me, and I want for them, whats best for them.
     
  14. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    Oh sorry, why do you care that much about the annual amout of snow vs the amout of plowable events, I realize the amount of snow affects your cost and ET's, but if you're not charging by the inch, than your charging by the time or by the hour. Lastly, your income is hourly based anyway in the sense that you (and possibly your employees) have a finite amout of hrs in the winter season which eventually break down to your annual income, correct? Therefore, you must figure you're worth X $s an hour while your providing service anyway, Correct? I'm not being a smart a$$, just thinking "out loud" , in a matter of speaking.
     
  15. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985


    That is why you Try to sell seasonals on a 3 year contract...It will take some of the risk out of it for Both partys...It will average out for both in most cases....payup
     
  16. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    You got the try part right, around here they usually bid grass and snow seperately Each Year. That's why i would'nt count on a multi-year deal. They seem to think even if they get somebody to do a 20,000 seasonal for 5,000 that there is a possibility that if it goes up for bid, they can find an even cheaper deal :dizzy:
     
  17. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    Exactly, this is kind of my point, Doesn't this problem then force you to re-evaluate your approach to this business? I understand that the customer wants good value, this is nothing new, but what is your attitude towards the customer of yours who couldn't give a rats rear about the livelyhood of your business? I still think it has to be about relationships if you want good margin, you need your customer, or "a" customer who REALLY appreciates the concept that you are a real person (or group) making a living providing a valuable service at a value for reasons other than pure greed. If it really comes down to competition kicking you between the legs, Then your overpriced for your market or their way to cheap and if you want that particular job or work the prospect needs to know why the difference in price. Just my 2 cents
     
  18. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    ...........yes
     
  19. csi.northcoast

    csi.northcoast Senior Member
    Messages: 320

    not to be really nosey but are you talking about that apartment complex..????
     
  20. Theshoemaker

    Theshoemaker Senior Member
    Messages: 207

    no sir, electrical company freight terminal