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what should I use as a Snow contract

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by ozman, Aug 23, 2001.

  1. ozman

    ozman Junior Member
    Messages: 6

    This year is my first year plowing.I will be biding on 300 unit complex Is there a contract that I should be using. If so can someone please Post a copy or email it or fax it to me so I know what type of layout I should be using. Thank for your help.

    Ozman

    oz23411@aol.com

    fax # 616-763-9719
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2001
  2. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Try the SEARCH feature..............

    ~Chuck
     
  3. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    No offence Ozman, but alot of us have worked long and hard on our contracts to just give them away.However when you join SIMA, contract templates are part of the package. I would suggest that route.
    I did have a template that I myself have sent to others, but I am shying away from being so liberal with my documents this year.
    While I believe that we can all share what we have learned, it has taken me 10 yrs to get my contracts where I feel comfortable with them. I dont think that a new guy to plowing should skip all of that learning curve. There is alot to be said for paying your dues, either over time, or to SIMA. Your choice.
    Dino
     
  4. SlimJim Z71

    SlimJim Z71 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,031

    Well said Dino.

    If you are not able to join SIMA, then I would start surfing the web looking for snowplowing contracts, and other service contracts, and just start creating your own. It's not a hard process, just a little time consuming. Good luck!

    -Tim
     
  5. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Ozman, I know you didn't ask for comments on this and I'm not offering any. Do I understand correctly that you have never plowed snow before and you're starting with a 300 unit complex? Just wondering what equipment you've got.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2001
  6. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    No offense guys but I thought the idea of this site was to help people??? If you need help on a contract idea e-mail me. Lets work together we are not in competition on this site.
    Jesse
    jessefry@ntplx.net
     
  7. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    I have no ill will at all. Here is my thinking on the matter.
    We have a person that is taking on a 300 unit condo project. Now one would not take this without prior experience. So if he has experience, why doesnt he have in house contracts or templates. If he doesnt, why does a pro not have any written contracts?
    If he is new at this, then SIMA is a must, and as part and parcel to SIMA they have much more detailed contracts then mine. He asked where he could find a contract, and rather than giving what has taken me 10 yrs to learn, and possibly not cover all his needs, I sent him to a place where he can get that info.
    Also its rather presumptuous that anyone here would just send along a contract because he asked for it.
    Furthermore, being that he is new, taking on a 300 unit project will prove very challenging, so he can use all the help he can whether it be from here or from SIMA.
    SO further to point of his question.
    Yes you should use a contract by all means, and while I have one that has been circulated, it may not cover all your needs. As someone new to snow removal, it would do you well to look into SIMA( Snow and Ice Management Association www.sima.org).
    As part of your membership package, you will have access to contract samples. Their phone number is 814-456-9550, and ask for Tammy. You first impression there will be better than the first one here. I apologize for tone of my first reply, and I hope you find all the help and advise you need.
    The pain medication is still wreeking havic with me.
    Dino
     
  8. Leroy

    Leroy Junior Member
    Messages: 15

    Dino,

    Don't apologize. You gave exactly the right advice. Yes, we all want to help newcomers and each other. But someone who has never plowed before taking on a 300 unit condo needs some sobering advice. If, as many condos, it has the small tiny drives, how much back dragging can one person do in one night during an "average" snowfall? What are you going to do when you get the 10" or even 20" storm? What are you going to do if your truck or plow breaks down? Do you have a back up plan? If you truly want to learn the business of snow and ice removal, join SIMA. And mind you this is coming from someone who has plowed for seven years and only got serious and professional last year and joined SIMA. Just my two cents, Hope it helps. As for the contracts you want, Every situation and every snow removal operator is is unique. You can take the contracts so generously provided by SIMA members on the website and change the name to your own. But your situation will be unique to you, your equipment, and your customers. Think it out carefully and there's a bunch of guys who have done this before that can help you (both here and at SIMA). Good Luck!
     
  9. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011

    "We have a person that is taking on a 300 unit condo project. Now one would not take this without prior experience. So if he has experience, why doesnt he have in house contracts or templates. If he doesnt, why does a pro not have any written contracts?"


    If someone wants to tackle a 300 unit complex who are you to say he cant do it? New to the biz or not? Its presumptuous to assume this person will be doing the work by themselves witrh a 15 year old CJ, which apparently has already been assumed.

    Some people should get off their high horses. If you dont want to give advice then maybe just sit in the background, read posts, and let those who want to help do so.

    BTW I forwarded this individual a few sample contracts which were formerly posted here and/or elsewhere on the internet. After all, they are now public domain.

    Im disappointed that those who were more than eager to help last season are now being so close-fisted.
     
  10. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    My first plowing contract (other than my mothers house) I was 17 and had a private community three 1/2 mile roads and about 25 full drives on them. One Toyota 4x4 7ft plow 2 snowblowers and hand shoveled sand. Everyone has to start somewhere. Yes it was hard but I manged to keep the contract and expand the next year.
    Just be sure that you are prepared for hard work and long nights. Try to hook up with a buddy so that if you have an equipment failure you can finish the job even if delayed.
     
  11. SlimJim Z71

    SlimJim Z71 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,031

    I'd like to expand on a few things here before this blows up into an "online bar-fight"... lol. First off, I don't think that there is ANYONE in here that is not willing to help another person out. I don't care if you are competing for some of the same contracts as I am, if you need help, just ask. Second of all, I have shared my contract in the past, and probably will do so in the future. My thoughts on this particular time were NOT to give him a copy of it for the simple fact that I don't think it's good enough to cover a 300-unit operation in it's current form. So I guess I felt I didn't want to be "liable" so to speak if I had excluded an important portion of my contract that could have left a window open for a problem. Also, when I wrote my contract, I used information that I had gotten from SIMA, Dino's contracts when they were available, Chuck Smith, as well as combining my own into what I saw to be a good contract for my needs. So in effect, my contract is a benefit of my membership with SIMA, so making it freely available would not exactly be the right thing to do.

    I know it may seem like some are pushing for joining SIMA instead of directly offering help, but it's only because it IS one of the best resources available to us as plowers. I've gotten a lot of help from not only SIMA, but other SIMA members as well. Chances are, if you're doing a 300-unit job, you can afford to join SIMA... or I should say you can't afford NOT to!!!

    Again, good luck with your search for a contract, and with winning the bid. Don't ever be afraid to ask anyone in here for help. You may not always get the answer handed to you, but we will ALL do our best.

    -Tim
     
  12. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    I might also add that last year SIMA didnt have sample contracts available to members on the net. It was something you had to call and ask for. So in light of that I offered my as a sample. I have even sent a few this year that contract. However since SIMA has revamped its site, and covers alot more info and detail than my sample, I thought it was prudent to refer the person to them for a better variety of samples.
    Now, the fact that he may have gotten my contract from another source is fine with me, in fact a was betting that he would. This was also a test to see how others would approach the situation, and for the most part it fell right in lne with what I thought. John Dimartino and I had this discussion the other night, where we both agreed that sometimes the info is a little to free around here, and we cut out critical learning opportunities.
    I believe the old addage apllies in this matter.
    " Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime."
    Dino
     
  13. PINEISLAND1

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    Teach a guy to fish around here and you'll never get his butt into your plowtruck when you need him 'cause he's always ice fishin.
     
  14. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    "teaching a man to fish" was the principle behind my post/question. That and the fact that he didn't ask a question about taking on that much. Maybe he does know what he's doing, maybe not. That's his decision to make. I just know that last week I passed on bidding a similar sized apartment complex and I wondered if he'd thought about what it would take. Notice that Ozman posted this a couple days ago and hasn't been back although people asked for clarification. Seems to be an all-too-often phenonemon - asking how much should I bid for this or something similar, expect a direct and impossible answer then leave without acknowledging any responses.
     
  15. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Well said Mick.
    I recieved an email from him, and in it it stated that others that have my contract sent it to him, and that was all he needed.
    Oh well this will at least breed a new thread that may help others in the future.
    Dino