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What requires a CDL?

Discussion in 'Business Fundamentals' started by Philbilly2, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,615

    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  2. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,615

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Philbilly2
    Sorry, maybe I worded it wrong, when I read back over my post, I understand why that could be misleading. By curb weight, I meant loaded as in what is scaled.

    Machine- Cat 304CR 9,780lbs
    Skid Loader Trailer - 2,200lbs
    Total Curb Weight - 11,980lbs

    I know that these weights are not exact to the pound, they will change a little depending on fuel in machine, size of bucket/ number of buckets, mud in tracks, number of chains and binders on trailer. There is an elevator across the street from my shop that lets me weight my equipment. I think that their scale weighs in 10lb incramates. So it will vary a little, but not 2,000lbs.

    With a trailer weight of say 13,000lbs to give 1,000lbs of error for fuel and mud and a van that has 12,000lb plates and scales at just over 10,000lbs. I still only get a combined weight of 23,000lbs. That is under the 26K. and under the 14K on the trailer.

    I got ya, Still curious of the GVWR's


    To answer as best as I can....

    For the van
    GVWR is 12,000lbs
    GAWR is 4,500lbs (front)
    GAWR is 8,600lbs (rear)

    Skid Loader Trailer (I am not sure on these, I will need to go to the shop to check for sure, but as far as I know they are)
    GVWR is 14,000lbs
    Has (2) - 7,000lb axles
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  3. campkd6

    campkd6 Senior Member
    Messages: 324

    I am sure I am wrong but have been told by DOT if a vehicle is lettered regardless if it is a yugo or a Mack truck it can be considered a commercial vehicle. But I am sure I am wrong. Lol
     
  4. lilweeds

    lilweeds PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,178

    For one thing it goes the GVWR not the actual weight on the trailer. Generally any trailer the is registered at 10,001 and about needs a class A. And unless your towing a camper it really needs to be a CDL.
     
  5. lilweeds

    lilweeds PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,178

    One more thing..... The truck needs to be registered to carry the correct combo as well.
     
  6. MidcoastMainiac

    MidcoastMainiac Member
    Messages: 95

    Not true about the 10001 gvw trailer needing a cdl.. I am running a 14000 gvw behind a 9900 gvw truck with a combined gvw of 23900 and my truck is registered at 26000gvw and I am not required to have a cdl for it. If I register for 26001 lbs gvw, I would need a cdl. And if a truck that has air brakes that is registered under the 26k mark, you do not need a cdl either.
     
  7. zman9119

    zman9119 Member
    Messages: 42

    From the State of Illinois:

    You need a Commercial Driver's License if you operate:

    • Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, providing the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
    • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
    • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
    • A vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.


    http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/drivers/cdl/whoneeds_cdl.html
     
  8. 02powerstroke

    02powerstroke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,188

    People all debate this up and down because there is a US gov standard that each state HAS to follow HOWEVER each state can refine that as much as they like for example requiring any trailer over 10,001 to need a class A driver licence. In my state you only need a class A if the combined weight is over 26,001.
     
  9. lilweeds

    lilweeds PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,178

    Yes every state is a bit different. I know in PA if the vehicle has air brakes you need to have an air brake endorsement. Me I played it safe. If you know someone with the truck it cost so little to get the license.
     
  10. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    A yugo would not be a CMV unless hauling haz mat.

    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=r49CFR390.5

    It doesn't matter if a vehicle is lettered or not.

    There are 2 definitions of CMV, don't confuse this one with the definition of CMV that reauires a CDL.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  11. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    There is no such thing as an air brake endorsement.
     
  12. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    Why do you suppose he wrote you up then? Did he confuse the over 10k trailer thing or did the CGVWR being exactly 26k throw him off?
     
  13. blowerman

    blowerman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,261

    Why is this issue debated on a forum... The best advice we could give you is your own states web site that should detail the exact info on cdl rules. There are not gray areas when it comes to if a cdl is needed or not. They (states as well as feds) spell out the rules to a T...
     
  14. Township1

    Township1 Member
    Messages: 94

    Good point because it makes a big difference. The Original Poster is both wrong and right - A class C driver can drive a <26000# vehicle with air brakes, however a Class A/B driver cannot have the L restriction and drive the same vehicle, they would need to have the restriction removed.
     
  15. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    Why not? :confused:

    A class A holder can drive any vehicle that a standard license holder can drive.
     
  16. Township1

    Township1 Member
    Messages: 94

    Not in this case - The holder of a PA CDL who has the "L" or air brake restriction can not drive ANY vehicle equipped with air brakes.
     
  17. PerfectEarth

    PerfectEarth Member
    Messages: 86

    Geez, I have seen this argument all over lawnsite.... and I'm putting my two cents in again.

    1. It does not matter what you haul, how much you weigh loaded/unloaded, how your load is loaded, etc....DOT officers and troopers only care about GVWR and GCWR!!...the actual manufacturer's numbers.

    2. For a Class A, the rule is quite simple.... you need one if you GCWR (Combined weight) is over 26,000#.......PROVIDED (<------- the key word) that your trailer is over 10,000#

    SO, like me- I drive an f550 at 19,000#.... I also have a dump trailer at 12,000#... This equals 31,000 GCWR, so I have my basic Class A, minus the air brake and tractor trailer endorsements. I can't drive those.

    IF my trailer was an even 10,000# I WOULD NOT need a Class A CDL because, even though I am over the 26,000# magic number, my trailer at 10,000# keeps me good.

    AND, there IS such a thing as an "Air Brake Endorsement"...I don't have one, and it's written on my license as "K- no air brake endorsement"

    I also have "O- no tractor trailer"

    The State/Fed rule for classes of CDL licensing is pretty straight forward, read this-

    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm
     
  18. paponte

    paponte Senior Member
    Messages: 717

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN AIR BRAKE ENDORSEMENT ANYMORE... IT IS A RESTRICTION!!!

    Check with YOUR state, but they should all be pretty much the same laws, since the FTA is FEDERAL.

    If you tow over 10k lbs, and your not recreational... YOU NEED A CLASS A
    If your truck is over 26k... YOU NEED A CLASS B
    If your truck is over 26k, AND you tow over 10k... YOU NEED A CLASS A COMBINATION
    If your truck is over 26k AND it has air brakes... YOU MUST NOT HAVE AN AB RESTRICTION
    If your truck is over 10k AND is used COMMERCIALLY... YOU MUST HAVE DOT NUMBERS
    If YOU drive a vehicle that requires a CDL... YOU MUST ALSO HAVE A DOT PHYSICAL, AND CARRY THE CERTIFICATE ON YOUR PERSON WHILE OPERATING THE VEHICLE.

    It's not about the he said/she said BS people, it's the LAW!
     
  19. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    Hmmm........I guess I see what you re getting at. If you have the restriction it say no vehicle with air brakes. But technically you could drive an under CDL truck with air. That has really got to confuse the guy with the gun and badge.

    Right the key word is PROVIDED..

    So you have a "no air brake endorsement" restriction? :dizzy::laughing::laughing:
     
  20. PerfectEarth

    PerfectEarth Member
    Messages: 86

    [/QUOTE]=cretebaby;1115871So you have a "no air brake endorsement" restriction?[/QUOTE]

    Sorry about the incorrect "terminology" ..... yes, I have an air brake RESTRICTION.

    I think you know what I meant.