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What do you think?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by ADM Services, Jan 11, 2000.

  1. ADM Services

    ADM Services Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    We are planning on expanding our Landscape division and are in need of another truck and skid steer. This truck would also double in the winter as a salt/plow truck. The skid steer would double loading bulk salt. <br>It seems to me that our money is better spent on a F650/F700 class truck rather then an F350/F450. <br>Also would need a skid steer big enough to load this truck, but small enough we can cross sidewalks in the summer without the fear of breaking them.<br>We are not bias in regards to Ford, Chevy, GMC. <br>As far as sid steers: John Deere, Cat, New Holland, Case, etc..<p>Any other ideas or thoughts would be great. <br>Thanks<br>Andy
     
  2. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    I guess it somewhat depends on the type of plowing you do. Most of our sites need a 4x4. We do have 2 GMC 7000's but they only work well in certain situations.<p>I would look at a Ford 550 4x4.
     
  3. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    I guess it somewhat depends on the type of plowing you do. Most of our sites need a 4x4. We do have 2 GMC 7000's but they only work well in certain situations.<p>I would look at a Ford 550 4x4.
     
  4. ADM Services

    ADM Services Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    4x4 not required. If in fact the truck was slipping around we would just add ballast.<br>This truck would be used for plowing larger lots.
     
  5. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    I just bought a f 650 in december. It is a great truck for plowing and sanding. I have used it for summer work yet. It has a pick up truck inside, which is great. My suggestion is to use a under the tailgate spreader, then your not stuck with a big v-box. I do have a v-box and i view it as a mistake but who knows.<p>My F 650 has the cat diesel and the auto trans.<br>Geoff
     
  6. ADM Services

    ADM Services Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    How many yards of material can you fit in your V box spreader??<p>I think I would go with the under the tailgate spreader. Takes up less yard space, and costs less. I also want to outfit it with a Western 10' pro plow.<p>Was the Cat motor an upgrade? <p>Your truck sounds great.
     
  7. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    I would also recomed a low profile dump body, with shorter sides.. This would work better for landscaping and you can always use sides. I myself am not in the landscaping business and used a high side body. The 650 is a great truck, i own a 650 and a 550, for big lots the 650 even in 2wd will out plow the 550. <p>The base price for a 650 is around 32,000. I have spent enough money this season. I won't buy anything this season that has to do with snow removal, unless we get snow. That even includes a SIMA measurement. Most years we have 5 storms by mid January.<p>As for the skid steer, you have a tough call to make. A small skid stear won't load the 650, and a big one will crush walks. I think the bobcat 874 will load the 650.<p>Geoff
     
  8. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    The 650 offers 4 motors, a cummings 5.9 right out of a dodge, a ford 7.3, same motor in my 550, and a cat. I went with cat for the long life. <p>On a truck that size, don't use a western plow. I know a guy that did, then after one storm he bought a fisher for it. I have a fisher, and you don't want anything else. That f 650 will drive right over a western or meyer blade. The fisher has a split trip edge which is a lot better than a solid 9 foot edge. This split edge, takes care of a lot of the problems people have with trip edges. <p>My v-box holds about 6 yards, i guess you could cram 7 or 8 in it. <p>If you get the under the tailgate you will save a lot. Just get the body with high sides for a better amount of salt. Meyer is owned by swenson, and they make a great under the tailgate spreader.<p>Hope this helps.<p>Geoff
     
  9. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    If you do decide to get a f 450 don't waste your time. There is much of a cost difference between the 450 and 550. The extra 1,000 for the 550 will be money well spent.<p>Geoff
     
  10. paul

    paul PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 151

    It's a close call on the F-550 Ford or the F-650 You can get a longer bed with the 650 up to 14'or 16' f-550 dump is limited to 12' It all depends on the landscapeing that your doing (large work or smaller jobs.) For real large jobs just have matierial trucked in it's cheaper in the long run. <br>Skid loaders Case XT 75 will not ruin walks, I use New Hollands (old style) 555, and 783 haven't broken a walk yet. If worried just plank the walk. The new style New Hollands I don't like because you lose your side vision with the loader arms raised. We are looking at the new Case models I like the XT90 for its lifting cap.<p>paul
     
  11. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    Andy,<br>If you're getting 2WD anyway, I'd spend the extra on the bigger truck. We've got both sizes and in the summertime, you just can't beat those 2-ton units.
     
  12. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    I am not trying to tick off any of the SIMA members, i am sure you guys learned alot. The thing is up in Maine people don't care if your a member of any association. If you can move the snow, and put sand on the ice they are happy. If this year there was ton of snow, then i would buy a membership. Only right now i have only plowed once and sanded twice. I have been to any residental properties this season. I have customers wondering what is going on, and why they have to pay for no service. I want snow just to keep people happy. Oh well maybe it will snow, and people will be happy. Maybe its time to sell? Who Knows? The thing is SIMA is a great thing, but it almost all national contractor associations aren't recongized in maine. I think you guys have it a little better you can sell a ton of salt apps, people want black lots, and they want a first rate job. Up here people don't care very much.<p>Geoff
     
  13. snowblade

    snowblade Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    The 650 would be better for plowing parking lots and for doing landscaping work. Alot of guys have them in my area. Most people use Viking plows on the bigger trucks, not the fishers or westerns. The fishers and westerns do a good job. It depends on how big the lots are, how much you want to spend, and if you want a plow hitch on all year(but you can take it off and add a bumper). As far as skidsteers, I would have to say a New Holland with a super boom. Go for around an 865LX. For the skidsteer do you want to change attachments? like hooking up a plow, or a snowblower later? New Holland offers a good attachment change system. Just my 2 cents<p>Justin
     
  14. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    The problem with the F 650 is it's a heavy tuck in one respect but in the other its not. It has a great payload in both volume and weight. It has a good choice of transmissions and motors. Before i bought the Fisher plow for it i looked at a Frink. Frink builds a tough plow, it would outlast the truck. The problem with Frink is its wicked heavy, and is going to put a lot more front end wear on the truck. The fisher plow might not be as tough as a Frink, only its heavy enough to plow lots and roads and take a beating. I saw a fisher 10' 10 years old and still in good condition for the work it has done. I said to my self, i use the lighter plow, less wear and tear, and if i beat up the moldboard really bad in 5 years i buy a new moldboard, because i am only going to keep the truck 10 years. The thing about a Frink or some of the heaver duty plows, is they are really designed for a class B truck, with a much heavier front end. Frink will sell you one for a 650 or 750, just like fisher will sell a blade for an s-10. The Frink dealer told me that the Frink blade was really too heavy for the F 650, and its like putting a plow on a S 10 or ranger. Sure it will plow but the truck will get beat up. <p>My advice is go with a Fisher, keep the truck under 25 and you will get 10 years out of the blade. The front end will stay in good shape, and you will not have a big ugly &quot;town truck&quot; head gear on all year round.<p>Geoff
     
  15. snowblade

    snowblade Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    For a sander, go for the undertailgate, you get better capacity, and they go for less then $2000(depending on which brand, options,etc). Most contractors have v-box spreaders.The only reason for those(v-boxes)would be if you had a mason dump or something. Go for a stainless steel undertailgate sander if they make them.<p>Justin
     
  16. n y snow pros

    n y snow pros Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    You should look at a Internatoinal 4400 series straight frame,not the low pro frame. This truck comes with standard features that are not even options on ford,chevy or gmc,and the truck will cost you less.YOU will have truck that can is built better ,resale is higher ,and will last you 20 years plus. We have 2 4400 series 1 with a 17000gvw,12ftaluminium diamond plate,dumping rack body with ramps for loading mowers and equp.It also has a back its a bit exsessive,but over all price was less than a f350 dump with no backpack.Call me for info on this if you like. As far as a spreader you should look at a Harder spreader from Lagasse industries.THIS IS A TALGATE STYLE WITH A CONVEYER THAT SLIDES IN THE BED.yOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIFT THE DUMP BODY WHILE THE TRUCK IS IN MOTION LIKE TRADITIONAL TAILGATE STYLES SO THE SET UP IS SAFER.You can load the truck chock full of material and dump any material out of the dump while the unit is still in the bed,you got to see it to believe it. <p>----------<br>J PARKER<br>914-485-4200
     
  17. fireball

    fireball PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 536

    i agree with Mr. Parker but i would get the straight frame with the low pro package(springs and small wheels. This truck is one of the best kept secrets around for the price. All the new bartlett tree trucks are these. They are putting the southern tree bodies on them with a side mounted electric lift gate. As far as the spreader is concerned, our township purchased one last year on bid and were real concerned about it beause it wasn't anything they were used to. One storm and they won't buy anything but. twice the capacity as a normal spreader and because you can spread between the front and rear axel they never have to use chains anymore. it handles modified 3b in the summertime just fine. topdressed the ball field with topsoil and compost too. Couldn't talk them into buying a truckload of wood mulch to see how it would spread that
     
  18. snowblade

    snowblade Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Ok, Fireball, what kind of spreader is it? All you said was it had twice the capacity of the regular sander. What kind is it? v-box tail gate? what?<p>Justin
     
  19. Stephen

    Stephen Member
    Messages: 42

    N Y Snow pros - i'd be interested in all available info on your post about international trucks and your e-mail address doesn't seem to be coming up right. my e-mail address is PPPTriplePPP@aol.com thanks<p>----------<br>Stephen<br>
     
  20. ADM Services

    ADM Services Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    J Parker <br>Information on a 4400 series 1 would be outstanding. I also had problems e mailing you. When is the best time to call? Or if you want to can e mail me at Andyatadm@aol.com<p>Thanks a lot for the information<p>Andy