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western plow help needed

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by tecate1987, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    somewhat new to working on plows

    I recently got a western plow that wasnt tested when I got it. Anyways, the pump cylinder was up when I got it, I hooked up everything to try it the other day.
    I can not get the cylinder to go down, I even hooked up the blade to it overnite it also wont move angle either, it moved about an inch angle, feels like its getting pressure.
    But how do I get this to go down/??
     
  2. Western1

    Western1 Senior Member
    from MI.
    Messages: 678

    There is most likely some rust and pitting on the ram inside the packing. Try losening the packing nut.
     
  3. If they filled it with fluid while the ram was raised it could be too full, put the plow in float take off the breather cap and push down. Always be careful, there is alot of pressure there.
     
  4. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    I tried a little today
    Just tried to loosen the nut, I was able to loosen it some
    but I wanted to know is will there be pressure on it when it comes off?

    I will try more tomorrow, hopefully better weather.
     
  5. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    thx, I loosened the nut and it released down.

    I now have a question about the cables now.
    I can get the plow to work up and down, but the angle will only work if I move the linkage on the pump unit.
    only one of my cables have an adjustment screw type, the other is solid,

    should they both be adjustable? or does the adjustable one go to either the angle or up/down linkage? or dont it matter?
     
  6. Western1

    Western1 Senior Member
    from MI.
    Messages: 678

    There should be a set screw to lock in the cable to the housing. If you can lossen the set screw then you can adjust the cable that way.
     
  7. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    I did this, but still couldnt get it to work right, sometimes I could hear the pump, but it wouldnt move til I move the linkage under the covers on the pump.
    does it matter which cable goes where???


     
  8. Western1

    Western1 Senior Member
    from MI.
    Messages: 678

    No it doesn't. Most just use the cables with no adjustment. Sounds like the cable is bad?
     
  9. lukynskywyrd

    lukynskywyrd Member
    from wisc.
    Messages: 54

    western plow help..

    I just got done adjusting my Isarmatic Mk3. The up/down cable has no adjustment nut just the set screw in the casting. The cable has a groove where the set screw locks the cable in position so there isnt alot to play with in moving the cable up or down however I found a 1/16 was all I needed. As for the 4 way valve for angling, there is an adjustment nut where the cable threads in to move the cable up or down so you have the valve in the "neutral" position. There is a point on the right end that should line up with the roll pin. Adjust the cable so it is in this position when the controller is in the center position. 45* up or down will angle the bladfe left or right. Again this cable also has the locking groove for the set screw. Check your quick connects too, they can fail and not allow fluid to go back to the manifold when the cylinder is collapsing or allow fluid to enter a cylinder....found that out on Sat. Check the pump filter as well as the O ring under it.
     
  10. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    ok thx, right now my cables are backwards, I will try changing them and setting them.
    It seemed like the cable didnt have enough adjustment.
    I see the grooves for the set screwsas you discussed.
    I had to replace a QC on my old western system.
    Where is the filter on these just to check it?



     
  11. lukynskywyrd

    lukynskywyrd Member
    from wisc.
    Messages: 54

    tecate...filter location....

    the filter is on the pump. You have to remove the motor and this will give you access to the pump. 2 capscrew bolts hold the pump in place and the motor shaft fits in the top. The filter snaps on/off and sits in the bottom of the resevoir but you will see it without removing the pump. Clean any sludge out of the bottom too. There is an o ring where the pump seals to the orifice...replace that too. It is on the bottom of the pump and seals and keeps the pressure directed to the manifold. Any Western dealer will have these items, $5.00 total so it is cheap insurance. Tighten the pump capscrews to 175/185 in lbs with a spring washer under the head and a flat washer on the pump boss. Also replace the gasket where the motor mounts to the housing, again cheap insurance. Did you re pack the ram if it is leaking?? I believe the cables for up/down and left/right are different from each other, at least the parts list shows them to be and every picture I have seen shows the angle with the adjustment nut and the up/down without. As long as they swing 45* either way the valves/rotors should function.
     
  12. lukynskywyrd

    lukynskywyrd Member
    from wisc.
    Messages: 54

    seal the cable entryway too...

    with some silicon after you get them adjusted and locked down. Even though there is an o ring on the cable fitting water, snow, salt can get in the valve enclosure and mess it up. A little sealant on the covers would help too.
     
  13. lukynskywyrd

    lukynskywyrd Member
    from wisc.
    Messages: 54

    one more tip Tecate...

    run a ground wire from the brass contact strip in the joystick controller to a ground on the frame, block etc. There is a screw already on the strip so you have an attachment point. The whole system works on being grounded, Western designed it to ground through the control cables however this doesnt always work on an older unit. The extra ground wire solves this. A new solenoid is $20.00, add one of those too if the contacts are rusty or if it is the old tower style. These 2 things will speed up the plow movement.
     
  14. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    thx, I will have to get some time to do some of this. First I am going to change the cables around to see if I can get it to work with only the controller.
    I had to get a new solenoid cuz there wasnt one when I got it.
    I dont know how old the system it, dont look too old but deffinately not new.
    I prob wont be able to get to it til the weekend, plus weather is suppose to be nice that day too.

    Thx for all the info.
    Is this below just a back up doing this.

     
  15. lukynskywyrd

    lukynskywyrd Member
    from wisc.
    Messages: 54

    adding a ground wire

    is a more positive way to ground the system...and these need to be grounded. The factory way was through the control cables and on an older pump this isnt the most positive way. Drill a hole in the back of the controller and run a wire through it, attach it to the screw on the brass contact strip and then connect the other end to the engine block. I changed fluid, pump screen and o ring and the motor gasket today in about an hour...let it snow!
     
  16. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    I changed the cables around, I again can get the plow to go up and down no problem. I can only get the angle to work if I have someone run the controller and I move the linkage under the small cover. I can hear the pump run with just the controller but it wont move, sometimes it looks like the pump angle builds pressure cuz it will sort of kink but not move.
    It seems to me that either the cable isnt moving enough or it needs bled?
    Are either of these possible?
    If so how do I bleed the angles.
    Also what are the two little plugs on front of the angle box linkage.?

    I didnt change the filter yet, wanted to see if I could get it working this way first.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  17. lukynskywyrd

    lukynskywyrd Member
    from wisc.
    Messages: 54

    If you can get the angling to work by moving the valves manually then it is an issue with the cable adjustment....as long as the plow angles smoothly. Your quick connectors and good and really no need to bleed the rams either since they can move as mentioned. And the motor is actuating at the controller, so that is functioning fine. As are the valves in the manifold. The screw plugs give you access to the chambers but I dont think that is your problem. Are you using the cable that has the adjusting nut? Remove it from the housing and the attachment pin and make sure the valve lever is pointing to the roll pin on the right. Eyeball the length needed and adjust up or down with the nut and fitting. Re-attach the cable and fine tune it so the pointer is still in line with the roll pin. Have your handy assistant move the controller with the motor dissconnected as make sure you are moving up 45* when the controller is right , back to the neutral point when its in the center and 45* down when the controller is left. Anything more or less has to be adjusted out. If you cant then perhaps a new cable is needed if your is stretched. I will get the PN and a web site for you if it is. Do all of this with the set screw loose, you might have to move the fitting up and down a bit too.
     
  18. lukynskywyrd

    lukynskywyrd Member
    from wisc.
    Messages: 54

    new cable

    discountsnowplowparts.com PN:315-0167 or Western PN: 56130. Yours might be froze, kinked, stretched if you cant get the necessary travel out of it for the valve/rotor to work via the controller.
     
  19. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    thx lukynskywyrd, as of now I am leaning towards the cable too.
    Yes I am using the adjustable cable for the angle. It just dont seem like I can get it to move a good enough distance for it to work. Judging by what you had said from what I had posted, I am getting it to move when my assistant moves the joystick, and I help move the linkage under the cover a little. It does move smoothly and pretty quick, (lot quicker than my last truck and plow). I am going to try one more time today to adjust how you said, which is pretty much what I was doing. It no luck I will buy a cable and hope. Thx, again. I will keep you posted.
     
  20. tecate1987

    tecate1987 Junior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 29

    still need something.
    I got a new cable and same result. I still dont look like the cable moves enough for the pump to work. I can get the cable adjusted so it will go right, but wont go back. If I adjust again, I can get it to move left, but it wont go right, I just cant seem to find a happy middle?