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Western hydraulic and light problems

Discussion in 'Truck & Equipment Repair' started by palmer570, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    I recently purchased a 1990 chevy k 1500 with a 7'6" Fisher plow MM1 with a Western pump about two weeks ago. The plow worked fine, except the battery was way too small. Plowed two storms with no problems. Two days ago i started to have problems.

    I had to adjust my plow lights so i took the truck to the store to get a nut splitter cause they were seized and didnt want to break the light. Dropped the plow, went in and got what i needed, raised the plow no problem, atleast i didnt notice anything different, and went home to do the lights. Dropped the plow when i got home, ate some food, went out to move the truck and the plow wouldn' raise, pump is running, it would angle right fine but angling left the plow just angled to the right more.

    Checked connections for water, corrosion, ect.. nothing. Went to check fluild level and it came out the reservoir fill plug. From what I could find online it seemed like there was water in the fluid. It got extremely cold that day, the coldest since i got the truck and previous owner kept it in heated garage.

    Alittle frustrated I decided to adjust the lights as planned and thats when i noticed that my plow lights are acting weird. Hi and low beams are ok. I never check the turn signals on the plow when i bought it so not sure how long the were like this.

    Driver side light: both turn signal and parking light are on constantly

    Passenger side light: both turn and parking blink together when activating right or left
    both off when not signaling

    All four bulbs are turn signal bulbs, and truck turn signals still blink correctly with plow hooked up, not sure if that matters...

    Being as i planned on upgrading the battery, and i heard a battery on its last legs can mess with the plow and lights, I got a Diehard Platinum. Still the same.

    Today though the temp finally got above 0 and the plow raised and turned correctly but slowly at first then seemed to pick up speed. So water is what Im thinking is wrong with the pump. Spent the whole day tracking down anti-freeze/anti-moisture hydro fluid. Now I need to figure out what kind of seals I need when I purge the system. Not sure how many different types of pumps Western uses. I believe its the solenoid ISARMATIC Mark IIIa but not positive. With the lift ram extended its ten inches from packing nut to top.

    Im totally new to working on plows so any tips/info is greatly appreciated. From what I read I have to remove the two bolts from the pump housing to get to the filter and clean the inside of the reservior?

    Thanks!

    Hopefully these pics help
    Edit: The fluid on the pump is from when I opened the top of the reservoir. Old fluid is basic hydro with not too low of a operating temp.

    Picture 010.jpg

    Picture 009.jpg

    Picture 008.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  2. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    You have a few issues here that are un related.

    First the hydrulic issue....

    The S3 valve isn't shifting...I would suspect poor fluid quaility and cold temps as being your problem. Pull the valve out by removing the wires, then the jam nut, slide the coil off, and then remove the valve using yet another socket and or wrench. Bring it inside and warm it up, clean it up and perform the following.....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Do you have a warm garage or access to one? You need to change the fluid and change it out with new Fisher blue hydrulic fluid. Let me know if you need direction on how to do this. Once we get you up and running, we can worry about your light issue.
     
  3. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    FYI, Western and Fisher are all the same. What you have there is a mm1 SEHP pump with what appears to be a Relay setup ....2 plugs at the grill???
     
  4. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    There is a total of three plugs. pics attached. I dont have Fisher fuild but I have Snowplow Aftermarket Manufacturing S.A.M. Low-temp (-50). It says it replaces western 49311 and fisher 28531. Also matches the Military spec. for the western not sure about fisher. Figured its better than what was in it and acouple people told me they didnt have problems with it.

    I will be changing the fluid in a heated garage, I don't have one to keep it in though. I heard kerosene is good to use for cleaning hydro parts?

    I was going to follow the directions on Western's online manuel to change the fluid. Basicaly drop lift ram all the way, drain, then remove angle ram hoses from pump unit and rock bade left and right to get the fluid out. Refill, bleed air from angles, refill, bleed from lift, refill.

    Not too positive on taking the "top"? off the pump to get at filter and check/clean inside of reservoir.

    Also believe Im missing the cartrigde/coil cover so Ill have to clean those and get them covered.

    Picture 018.jpg

    Picture 020.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  5. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    I was just about done typing when your new post came through...

    Wow...someone has hacked that harness. It is typically a 2 harness setup, someone has hacked some trailer plugs in for some reason. This is most likely your issue when it comes to your lighting problem, but we will get into that later.

    Parts........
    Motor Gasket: 25861
    ORing: 115
    Screen Filter: 5820
    1 Gallon Fisher Hydraulic Fluid.......or your SAM stuff you already got.

    You should get a cover for the coils / valves as well....7649 & the screws 90650

    First you'll need to remove the ground and positive cables from the side of the motor, then remove the two bolts at the base of the motor where it meets the reservoir. Remove the motor. Now remove the gasket, scrape it off if needed, you need a good clean surface for the new one when your done.

    Remove the pump from the base of the reservoir, and remove the ORing from the bottom, as well as the screen filter, clean it up and set it aside. Remove any left over fluid from the base of the reservoir and clean up any gunk left behind. Install the new ORing and screen Filter.......

    I use rags & brake cleaner to clean the reservoir & parts

    Here is the flush prcd. Look for your Straight Blade SEHP pump for step by step...
    Fisher's Flush Procd.

    When your done, prior to re installing the pump motor, fill the reservoir up. I also recommend filling the lines and rams as you go....if you in fact do a full flush. If not, just do the above and call it a day.

    Mechanics Guide.

    A few pics of what to expect.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    Awesome man!

    Thanks so much for the info and pics they really helped out alot.

    Im gonna grab those parts tomorrow and pull it in my dad's work, machine shop so I should have anything I need at my disposal. I'll probably do a full flush of every thing just to be sure cause if I dont I'll be paranoid about it acting up in the middle of a storm.

    Yeah I kinda thought that trailer harness was suspicious but I never worked on plows.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  7. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    Glad I could help, I'll look forward to your follow up posts.
     
  8. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    Got the fluid, filter, and gasket changed. Dealer gave me wrong o-ring for the bottom of the pump but old one was in excelent shape. Didn't clean any valves yet because I couldn't get ahold of a torque wrench that would be accurate at 5 and 10 lb. I'm also going to need to rebuilt my rams I believe. There was alot of metal shavings on the old filter and bottom of reservior

    I have a new problem now. In a hurry to get started I never soaked the positive terminal of the motor with thrust and snapped the stud. I dont have a pic of how it looks now because of how I had to reconnect the cable.

    There was two nuts on the stud with the cable between them and I snapped it between the nuts. I put slight pressure on the remaining nut and the insert the stud goes into started to turn so I tightened it back. I should be able to grab ahold of the insert enought to hold it still as I turn the stud out but not sure if the stud is supposed to come out.

    I have it working though and its really fast now. I hope that stud can be replaced?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
  9. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    oh boy! Your going to be better of buying a new motor at this point....j/k, if you can 2 nuts on there to get it out, then get another stud of the same size, you'll be fine.

    Don't worry about torqueing those valves...I never do. Just snug them up and go another 1/4 turn, same thing with the jam nut. If there was metal in the rams & reservoir...your most likely going to find stuff in the valve bores too. Don't skip taking them out!! You really need to.

    Some of the casting didn't have a fill hole, simply top it off prior to putting the motor back on and you'll be good, then use the fill hole as your guide while purging.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
  10. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    Is it working the way it's supposed to?
     
  11. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    Yeah I ended up just soldered it to the remaining nut. Works beautifuly now. Storm just hit today and just got done doin some plowing. First chance I get I will clean everything I can.

    Now that you mentioned it I didnt notice any shavings when I purged the angle rams. I will have to purge them again into a glass jar and see.
     
  12. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    Some pics of where I broke it. Quick fix to get home, rubber mat behind the connection to keep the connection off the motor housing. My crappy solder job although I have a clean connection and no heating when in use.

    break.jpg

    first rig.jpg

    solder.jpg
     
  13. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    :laughing: simply pathetic lmao! I thought I had seen it all!

    I think you deserve your Macgyver Badge my friend! I think JB Weld would of been easier, but it worked, and that's all that matters.

    I gotta tell ya though, I don't think it will last, you might consider rectifying the issue on a permanent basis when you have the opportunity.
     
  14. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    Do i have to worry about that stud going too far in? I'm alittle scared trying to take it out because the part the stud goes into started to twist. I have a lead achor that will screw onto the post if I remove the nut and I will have enough room to bolt into it from the other side. I have to get find the hardware in my truck to take a pic.
     
  15. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    lead anchor

    Picture 077.jpg
     
  16. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    Honestly, I've only had this problem once that required drastic measures, and it was due to it loosening up on its own...and then it just spinning when I tried to tighten it, I took a equal sized bolt, put a die on there half way up, chopped the head off, and then used the die to even the threads back out. I then took a half of a lead pellet (Napa carries them for making battery terminals on big trucks *go with a low flash point) and put it in the orifice, I then threaded the bolt in and heated it up to melt the solder, as I did that, I wound the bolt in a bit more to seat it. Let cool, then attached the harness with a flat rubber oring thing from a ordinary garden hose (atleast that's were I think it came from, I found it amongst my junk draw....it seemed a bit smaller).......it not only worked...but it looked damn professional, much to my amazement!

    maybe someone else will speak up to their own experiences. I don't think they're supposed to come out, in fact I recall a cork looking base on the other end. Honestly...I would just replace the damn thing (the motor), but I know money doesn't just grow on trees...do what you can and move on to the other issues at hand.
     
  17. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    You know, you might want to remove the motor, take it inside, remove the top plate and take the inside stuff off first. Then get the old stud out and put an equal sized bolt in there the right way, then chop off the end so you can utilize it. I'm 99% sure they don't sell those studs, so your going to have to improvise.

    Where yours is busted off outside of the hole, you might as well not screw anything up behind it. They sell brush kits for these motors, I'll try and find some directions and diagrams to give you a better idea of what the inners (is that a word?) look like........stay tuned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  18. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    http://library.fisherplows.com/fisherplows/pdf/56642.01_070108.pdf

    Ok, this all I could come up with, but look at step 3.....there is definitely a proper way of removing it without causing damage...I just hope the "inner plastic stud bushing" hasn't already been compromised....whatever it is, it doesn't sound good lol...In all seriousness, it is what keeps the positive current from touching the motors housing and grounding out.
     
  19. palmer570

    palmer570 Member
    Messages: 31

    I think I'm just going to leave it be for now and hope it lasts the winter or until I have the extra cash to get a new motor. If it doesn't, I have acouple different options to try now anyway.

    I'm guessing those metal shavings are most likely coming from the rams? Probably sell rebuild kits for all three? Then I'll clean my valves when I do the rams.
     
  20. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,038

    A good chance yes...can you tell if they're aluminum or basic metal?

    They sell the wiper seals and what not yes....you have an 8' HD?