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Western Handheld Control Has No Power

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by redsnowdozer, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. redsnowdozer

    redsnowdozer Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    Hey guys, we have 3-6 predicted and I thought it would be good to go try out the plow. Western ProMount 8.5 on a Ford F-350 2008 V10 XLT, Got the thing all hooked up and went to power up the hand held controller and no power. Tried the brand new controller off of the other truck no power. Used test light and have power all over the place and even into the Isolation Module. No power on the red/green wire at the plugin for the handheld controller in the truck. The single solid red that comes out of the truck side controller plug in and runs back through the firewall has power. Jump out the solenoid and it move the plow.

    No headlights when I plug in at bumper and no power at the controller. 3 Port Isolation Module. Sounds like a bad module? I like that it says "there are no serviceable parts in this module" makes it easy form there. Can I use my Fisher module 3 port form my other truck?

    Am I on the right track? Thanks for your input, I don't want to have to go chase the backhoe many towns away! Appreciate the input!
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
  2. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    I am assuming this is a three cable system (at the grill) right? Not sure what the "pro mount" is... but the three porIt isolation module is pretty universal as far as wiring goes. If the lights are not coming on on the plow then is sounds like the system is not recognizing the presence of the plow, that points to a bad ground. The system is activated by a wire coming from the isolation module to the plow headlamp plug that loops right back through the plug and then goes to ground at the battery negative post. Find the main plow ground cable and then follow it back. There will be a small black wire with an orange tracer, follow that wire to the quick disconnect and make sure it is connected and clean. If that is good then follow the small bundle of wires coming from the relay, it will come to a four way split. Near that intersection therer will be two fuses and an unused configuration plug. Very near there will be an adapter plug that joins to the headlight harness. Right there will be another black / org ground wire and quick disconnect. That is the other possible bad ground connection. Again ensure it is clean and connected. You can test these wires anywhere along the way by using a poky test light. Just put the aligator on your battery + and then poke the wire on either side of each quick disconnect. If the ground is good your test light will turn on, if the ground is open the light will not turn on. You should also look at your plugs at the grill, make sure there is not corrosion or bent / broken pins. Sorry I can't tell you if the Fisher iso module will work, I wouldn't try it unless you can find someone who is sure it is compatible or you might fry something.
     
  3. redsnowdozer

    redsnowdozer Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    mishnick - Wow, thanks so much. I have to head back to shop to get truck inside, it's pouring here along the coast. Not far inland upto 2' fell last night. I am kind of glad we didn't get that here, way more comfortable in the truck than the backhoe!

    The truck has three plugs at bumper. I will go start to test ground instead of looking for power. So the single ground wire that recognizes the plow could also not allow the handheld controller to come on as well? Makes sense of course. I'll bring the diagram with me and start the poky test on the ground side. Plenty of dielectric grease on all connectors up front before storing but I will confirm all is well there too. All wiring and fuses associated with plow checked out for power and fuses were good, solenoid tripped but I couldnt get the smaller brown wires to do make the light on the tester glow whether positive or negative so maybe that is where to start. Awesome, thanks again for your quick reply! I'll let you know how it goes.
     
  4. I had a similar issue and I had a 3 plug system. After talking with alot of people and finding the right person who had some spare parts it ended up being a 11 pin wiring harness issue. The person who loaned me a spare 11 pin wire harness told me that he has had a pervious issue with another 3 wire set were the 11 pin Harness was the issue. I bought a new replacement module and that didnt fix the problem. It all came back to the 11 pin Harness!
     
  5. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    That 11 pin plug that rbmarvin77 speaks of is the cable between the isolation module and the plow headlight plug. That is exactly the cable that grounds out the isolation module to tell it the plow is connected. Signal goes out from iso module to headlight plug where it loops right back (if the lights are plugged in) and then jumps over to the next ground (black / org) wire of the control harness which carries the ground signal over to the last quick disconnect by the relay (also black / org) where it jumps to the last leg which goes right to the battery negative post. So... if that cable is damaged there is a good chance that the ground wire was broken. By the way, if you have one of those wires that is damaged, they make a great trouble shooting tool. I have one that I cut off about two feet from the iso module end. I opened up the cable exposing all the individual wires. I put an aligator clip on the black / org wire. With this you can simulate the plow by plugging it into the isolation module. Then you can test each one of the wires to see what would be sent to the light etc. A great troubleshooting resource.
     
  6. redsnowdozer

    redsnowdozer Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    rbmarvin77 and mishnick - Thanks again guys for your informed replys. I have pulled out the schematics, printed your emails and am now trying to find the time to head back to the shop and hook the truck up and start to diagnose. The storm did not materialize for us on the coast but CT, most of inland MA, NH and VT got hit hard by power outages and some very deep snow in NH, 31" to be exact. October was a tough month! I need them to predict more snow to give me the urgency to hit the shop again! I get the theory now of how the plow is recognized and it is just a matter of grinding out the work now. I really appreciate your replys, nice to know you are not alone! Our dealer service for this plow is far away and inconvienient. It is just better to know how to fix these things in the middle of a storm too! Thanks again, I'll let you know the outcome though it may be in a couple of days.
     
  7. redsnowdozer

    redsnowdozer Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    Mishnick and rbmarvin 77 You guys helped me a month ago with this problem, no power at the handheld controller. I finally got the time to goto the shop and start checking the grounds. I put the alligator clip on the positive side and then went around to all the areas and connectors you told me too. I even went out to the plow motor and tested the negative post there and the brown and org wire way out and everything comes up good. I went back behind the head light on the drivers side to the iso module and checked all those grounds the fuses and the black/org or brown/org quick connector on each side and it was good. Plow was on truck. I turned on the lights on the truck and made sure all was as it was supposed to be before testing.

    When I tested the solenoid by the battery the two smaller bown and or black with org wires, the plow triggered. When I tested the 11 pin harness the various female plugins the test light lit up too assuring good ground. Not on the plow side harness though. Not one of the male plowside plugs lit the light even though the motor ground and the smaller brown and org or green(?) wire out by the motor made it light and the main ground connector lit.

    I went behind the headlight and at the "reverse directional" two pronged plug in and for a laugh I reversed the two pronged "reverse directional" plug connector and suddenly the directionals worked, left is left and right is right. They did not before. Still no headlights though and all of the iso module plug ins test fine with the poky light. Do I have a problem at the connector on the plow side of the lights or the 11 pin harnness?

    I am tempted to try the iso module from my fisher on the other truck as it is a Douglas Dynamics part number that matches the fisher part number and is three ports like the problem truck.

    Also is there a diagnostic matrix I could down load that would make this easier. It doesn't take long to get past my electrical theoroy ability. I want something that says if this then that or try this then that and if this happens then this is broken?

    You guys have been generous with your time thank you.
     
  8. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Sorry to say there is no "diagnostic matrix" that you can use. There is a breakout plug available from Western though. It is a thing with three plugs that fits inline with the iso module plugs. You unplug the original, plug in this thing and then plug the original wire into that. There is a third plug now that allows you to probe each wire without damaging the original harness. Of course, since all three plugs are the same on the iso module you can use it for each of the three plugs. Beyond that it comes down to reading the schematic and reverse engineering the thing.
     
  9. As long as the ISO module has the same part number and plus you should be able use the other one to test it out. My understanding on ISO modules is there are two types white Label and green label for westerns. I didn't have a spare ISO module when I had my issues with the lighting so I bought another one to find out that wasn't the problem. If you got a second one I would surely try that first
    As far as your power and grounds go, I had pretty much the same results as you did when I tested mine. Try the module if that doesn't work look hard into the 11 pin harness. If its not the module I would get another 11 pin harness. Good luck !
     
  10. beavr711

    beavr711 Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    no power getting to plow (western uni-mount)

    Can't figure this one out, I had no issues with my plow all season, until I had my stater replaced.. I then hooked up my plow and all of a sudden nothing, lights don't switch over to plow lights, plow doesn't work at all..everything worked fine before I had the new started installed...my mechanic says it has nothing to do with it..can't be just a coincidence and it?
     
  11. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,963

    Did he disconnect the negative cable?
    Might not have hooked all the wires back up.
     
  12. beavr711

    beavr711 Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    no power getting to plow

    mechanic says the starter has nothing to do wit the plow, everthing up to near the motor looks good, I haven't checked under the truck, I'm convinced that has something to do with a ground when he replaced the starter..
     
  13. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    If he replaced the starter he should have disconnected the negative battery cable from the post. He probably left one of the plow grounds off when he re-attached the main truck ground.
     
  14. beavr711

    beavr711 Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    I agree but where should I look for the ground wire?, on the stater?, everthing looks good inside on motor and battery connections and selinoid.
     
  15. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,963

    Look for the plow ground.
    Look at the batt connectors see if there's any wires hanging around not hooked up.
    Then look at the SOLENOID to see if there's any wires off around it
     
  16. beavr711

    beavr711 Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    everything looks good under the hood, can't see any loose connections, I checked my plow lights found some corrosion and two signal light wires broken off, could it be that?...
     
  17. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,963

    Could be a start