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Western Discussion 11/10 - 11/14

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Michael J. Donovan, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. Michael J. Donovan

    Michael J. Donovan Head Moderator, Online Communities Staff Member
    Messages: 1,050

    Hello again Everyone!

    Also again this year, another one of our sponsors, Western Products, will be hosting a discussion here in the snow removal forum. The discussion will begin on Monday 11/10 and run until Friday 11/14. Be sure to read the discussion and feel free to participate. The discussions by Western in the past have created some great information and ideas and you can expect the same again this year.
     
  2. Western Tech

    Western Tech Sponsor
    Messages: 19

    Western Plow Discussions

    Hello Everybody,

    I would like to introduce myself, my name is Bill Raether and I work at Western Plows in the Technical Service department. I will be available this week on PlowSite to answer questions about our products. I look forward to the usual great discussions that take place here and I hope everyone is getting excited about the upcoming plowing season.

    Bill
     
  3. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    Good morning, and thanks for being available to answer some questions. Loyal Western customer here-great product, with minimal problems in the past.

    I have a couple of quick questions.

    We just had 9.5 Ft MVP Plus installed on two different trucks-an 07 F350, and 06 Chevy 3500. We opted for the backdrag edge and curbguard option on both, and was surprized to see the back drag edge cut short on either end of the plow to accomodate the curb guards which were mounted on the back of the plow and not the front. Was this install practice correct, or a screw up by the dealer? I always thought they were to be installed on the front of the plow as in your pic on your website.

    Also the plow hangs lower on one side when raised in the travel V position-is this normal?
     
  4. Western Tech

    Western Tech Sponsor
    Messages: 19

    JohnnyRoyale

    You are correct that the curb guards are designed to be installed on the front side of the cutting edge.

    Regarding your plow hanging lower on one side, do both plows have this condition? The UltraMount design does incorporate a pivot bar allowing the plow to follow the contour of the road but it still should be even during transport. I suspect that one lift chain is tighter than the other. Is one chain taunt and the other have slack in it? It could be a case where even though the chains have the same amount of extra links showing at the lift arm, one could be twisted more than the other causing it to become tight sooner than the other side. Try to get the chain tension as evenly as possible. Add a couple of twists to the looser chain to tighten it up. This should take care of it.

    Bill
     
  5. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    i have an 03 ultra mount , with the 4 plug isso mod. - installed by a dealer on an 01 ram

    i have had 4 different wires become burned out, or possibly some type of brake in it. It ran fine for 3 yrs, and since i have had to "jumper" a few wires ...some were for head lights , others was for the pump soilnoid? is there something wrong? all the wires are protected, and not run in bad spots, nothing sharpe either

    also one more - Has western considered making wings for the normall " pro plow" - i know i have a bunch of older ones , that id like a factory set on , rather that the pro wings with a hole in the middle of my plow - Im sure that it would require some modifications, and welding to make it work with older plows, but it could be put into development, to work ithe the newer ones. Im not a fan of the contractor blade, and im not sure if the "arc" would match up if i tried to mod it myself
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  6. Western Tech

    Western Tech Sponsor
    Messages: 19

    elite1msmith

    The condition that you are experiencing with your isolation module system is not normal. As you stated it worked fine for 3 yrs and that's the way it should be. I know you said the wires are protected and nothing sharp near the wires but something has to be causing this. There should be no need for any jumper wires and should operate trouble free for a long time. We have an '03 Dodge here with an isolation module system installed in it and it has been trouble free for 5 yrs. At this point I can't tell you exactly what is causing this without actually seeing the installation but I can tell you that it is not a normal condition. I would re-inspect the installation. Why would adding a jumper wire solve the problem? It's just a different wire doing the same thing the wire in the harness should be doing. Have the jumper wire been lasting or do they burn out as well?

    Western will probably not be developing wings for the "normal" Pro Plow series. The reason is because with the Pro Plus plows the use of wings was taken into account from the initial design of the plow. The load that the wing sees on a Pro Plus reacts off the power bar on the back of the blade. The normal Pro Plows do not have this feature therefore have no provisions to absorb the additional loading (forces) that plow wings would create.
     
  7. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    Thanks Bill,

    John.
     
  8. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    well heres the funny part about that wiring. all the jumper wires that i put in , were in different harnesses. One was the passenger head light , one was the drivers high beam , one was a turn signal , and the most recent was the wire from the controller to the pump solinoid. i jumpers are only 2 years old (for the the oldest one) i tent to jumper with a heavier gauge wire. also had one of the head light sockets go bad which was on the western side, not the factory

    orginall alt, Optium battery, normal voltage readings, no special light bulbs or anythng fancy. the harness that runs thought the fire wall, does go thew rubber,
     
  9. snowman55

    snowman55 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,071

    i have many ultra mounts. last year had one break at 50 mph almost killed the driver. the tab that the main light rack and pump bolt to broke off causing the plow and upper rack to fall to the ground. called the dealer he said no way. called western got the "we test the product and have no issues". I inspected all my plows and found several more poor or cracked welds on the tabs at the round cross tube. We have added new supports to all of the ultras since then. have you heard of this and what is gonna be the fix. not every one has a fab shop to re engineer their plows. I feel this is a serious issue for western. try dropping your plow at 50mph in 4" of snow and let me know how you fair(at the very least your gonna need some clean undies).
     
  10. Western Tech

    Western Tech Sponsor
    Messages: 19

    elite1msmith

    I agree with you that something funny is going on, as I stated before it shouldn't be hapening and should provide you years of trouble free service. Let's take the controller to motor relay (soleniod) for example. You didn't state if it was the was the positive (brown/red) or the ground (black/orange) wire so I am assuming to was the positive wire but all this wire does is trigger a coil to activate in the soleniod. It only carries less than 1 amp of current so anytime I hear that a wire is burnt I have to think there still is a short somewhere. Is this a Western motor relay? Is it the old tower style or the new round style?

    Bill
     
  11. Western Tech

    Western Tech Sponsor
    Messages: 19

    Snowman55

    I definitely agree having a plow hit the road is a serious problem. I would like to find out some more information on this if I could. You said it was the brackets welded to the round tube (lower lift frame) broke off. This is a "U" shaped bracket correct? Do you know if those brackets were just U-shaped brackets or was there a filler plate welded on the inside of the U bracket? Also which blade did happen to? I know it was an UltraMount but what size blade?

    Thanks,
    Bill
     
  12. snowman55

    snowman55 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,071

    there is no u bracket. there is just 2 tabs 1.2"x 3" that the upper rack fits over and bolts to and these have just a bead weld to the round lower frame. our fix was to bend a 2" strap around the round lower frame weld in place and replace bolts with longer ones. creating a u bracket on top of the original tab. plow is a 9' pro plus. have noticed a crack on the same weld on a new wideout also. we went ahead and made the addition to all my ultras
     
  13. slongfellowii

    slongfellowii Senior Member
    Messages: 157

    I also have had the bracket break on my 8 1/2 pro. I notice my lights moving way to much when i back up off the snow pile. Was able to limp home with a ratchet strap. The whole plow tower and blade are held up by 1 1/2" of weld front and back on both sides. My solution was to weld a piece 1/8" flat stock from the bar holding the pump to the round cross tube on the bottom of the plow for some triangulation. Still has to be tested this year. I believe John Gear or Firstclass had this happen also.
     
  14. snowman55

    snowman55 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,071

    I didnt think I could be alone. I think our solution is simple and will not fail but where is western on this?
    I agree that 2 1.5" welds is way to little to support 1000# of plow going down the hiway.
     
  15. Western Tech

    Western Tech Sponsor
    Messages: 19


    snowman55

    There should be a u-bracket. Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing here I am going to add a picture showing what the brackets on the lower lift frame should look like.

    Bill

    IMG_1198.JPG
     
  16. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762


    orignal soilinoid... so im not sure i think it was a newer style? yes it was the positive wire. I never found any evidence of a burn wire, or a break in one... i jsut know that i tested for power at each end, one end had it , the other didnt... checked resistance , and that showed zero




    Also , i do think im talkign about the same part of the plow as the other guys... but my mount welding was terrible, it cracked, and the light tower started leaning , is how i noticed it... i rewelded it , but there was very little penitration from the orginal welds....
     
  17. slongfellowii

    slongfellowii Senior Member
    Messages: 157

    Mine did not have the filler plate, but unless it is welded on the backside of the the plate, there is still only 1 1/2" of weld on the front and back of the u-bracket. The lift arm pivot is 21" from the cross tube with only 4" of the bracket sticking in. Think of it as a cheater bar with a 500 lb blade bouncing on it. I know others have complained about the lift tower tubes splitting and the explanation is that the bolt are tightened too much. A little added piece like the fix I had to do take a lot of the stress off the bracket.

    100_6246.jpg
     
  18. michdeere

    michdeere Member
    Messages: 87

    Cab Command for '05 ultra MVP

    Hi Bill,
    I bought a new ultra mount MVP in 2005. The hand held controller was fine for the first couple of years. Now, it will intermittently power off while I'm using it. This will happen during use (not from setting idle). I'm positive I'm not bumping the on/off button. I've read a little here and there about wires breaking or becoming loose where the cable goes into the bottom of the controller or possibly where they attach to the circuit board. I'm the only one running this plow and it's not being abused. The control is hung up properly (in it's hanger) any time it's not being used.
    Just wondering if this is a sign of trouble coming, ie broken wires/bad circuit board? I should probably buy a spare controller but the dealer says $425. OUCH! That's 10% of the original price of the whole plow. Is there a fix for this other than a new controller? Thanks for your help!
     
  19. snowman55

    snowman55 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,071

    yeah slongfellow thats is exactly what I found. my fix is similar except I bent a piece all the way around the bottom frame and up to the bolts on the front as well.

    Western tech, it appears this is pretty common. its an easy fix but would like western to engeneer a correct one. Think about a plow and lite bar dropping to the ground at 50 mph? someone is gonna die.
     
  20. Western Tech

    Western Tech Sponsor
    Messages: 19

    michdeere

    Sorry to hear you are having issues with your controller. Seeing as this is a '05 MVP, does it have the controller with the mode button and light? That particular controller is being phased out in favor of the new 9 button controller which eliminates the mode button. You can still get a replacement cord for your controller (known as 6 button). This just plugs into the circuit board and has a list price of $83 p/n 66633. This replacement cord is only available in limited quantities as it is also part of the phase out.

    The newer style 9 button controller is the direct replacement for the 6 button controller with the mode button/light. This new controller also has replacement cords and circuit boards available and your controller can be up dated into the 9 button style by changing these parts out.

    Bill