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Western cable plow angling slow to left/ can not locate service bulletins

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by property mgr, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. property mgr

    property mgr Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Hi guys,

    I recently bought an older Western cable type plow and installed it on a 1993 Jeep Cherokee XJ. Replaced the motor with a new Western replacement, drained fluids, filter was clean, changed fluids in angle cylindars using the procedures documented on this site, replaced both hoses, and the plow works great--almost. Lifts fast, angles to the right fast, drops fast. However, angling to the left is not consistant. Sometimes angles almost as fast as it does to the right, sometimes very slow, sometimes a 10 second delay before it moves slow to the left. (when I refer to angles to the left, the right cylindar is extended, left cylindar is contracted, snow is thrown to the drivers side--hope I'm describing this correct)

    The manual I downloaded from Western points me to the 4-way valve lever travel. I removed the cover and the cable appears to be moving the valve level almost as it is illustrated in the manual. (no dirt or ice buildup, cable is NOT disconnected in the valve enclosue, cable does not appear to be bound, kinked, or broken, radius appears to be greater than 8", dog point set screw is positioned in the groove of the control panel.

    My problem may be that my cable does not appear to be adjustable like the Western diagram illustrates. Page 7 of the Western Mechanics Guide, C5 Note states that "If not equiped with adjustable cable, see Service Bulletin SP-595 Page 3. I can not find service bulletins on the Western site. Can anyone point me to this bulletin or give additional next steps to touble shoot.

    Could this problem be air in the right side cylindar--if so, what is the best way to bleed out the air? Bad right side cylindar? Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

    I'd like to resolve this prior to the next snow (which St. Louis has not seen much of in the last several years, but if the plow fails I know we will see 12").

    Thanks guys.
     
  2. Rickco

    Rickco Member
    Messages: 89

    The first thing you should do is to replace the quick conects on the hoses. I've been running a older Western for Almost 20 years and have learned to replace them every year. 90% of all angling problems will be caused by them failing.
     
  3. property mgr

    property mgr Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Changing the disconnect makes sense

    That's an easy fix I'm going to try since I did replace the quick disconnect on the driver's side of the plow which angles the plow right. Right angle really works fast and consistent. I did not replace the passenger side quick disconnect--and it's not angling to the left correctly--slow and inconsistent.

    I would not have thought about this because the quick disconnect does disconnect easy enough and does not leak. The disconnect I did replace was rusty and not disconnecting freely.

    Great tip. I'll let you know if that works out.

    Thanks!
     
  4. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Sound's like you did your homework on the 4 way valve check so since you said that the problem is inconsistent (sometime's works sometimes doesn't) I'd be likely to suspect the quick coupler's too.
     
  5. property mgr

    property mgr Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Quick disconnects replaced, still angles inconsistant to the left side

    OK, I replaced the passenger side quick disconnect today, (I changed the other disconnect when I changed the hoses a few weeks ago) and unfortunately this did not solve or improve the problem. Cycled the plow right and left at least a dozen times and the angle right function is quick and without hesitation. The left angle function is inconsistent and usually very slow--never as quick as the right side.

    What concerns me the most is that two or three times out of the dozen test cycles today, the left angle would not move at all for 3 to 10 seconds. This seemed to occur more often if the blade was set to plow straight and then I would angle left. When I started from the extreme right angle and angled to the left, it seemed to move immediately, although very slowly. Again, my biggest concern is that we will get a good snow, I'll start to plow, and then the angle may quick functioning completely.

    What would you guys trouble shoot next? Appreciate your advice.
     
  6. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    When it does this "delay" is the pump motor running but the blade isn't moving?
     
  7. Rickco

    Rickco Member
    Messages: 89

    Sorry to hear it's more then the conectors. Ok, heres a kind of easy check to narrow this down. s3itch your angle hoses around. Flip the left and right. The plow will work backwards but this will tell you if its the piston or if the problem is in the controler.
    It could be a bad seal on the right piston,which is no big deal. Let me know how it goes.
     
  8. property mgr

    property mgr Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Next trouble shooting steps

    B&B--Yes, the motor appears to engage and run strong but the plow is not angling to the left while the controller lever is held to the left. I'm thinking maybe there is a blockage in the valve or the valve is not opening consistently. But I do not believe it is the motor or electrical.

    Ricko--That sounds like a good next test to switch the hoses--I'll let you know.

    Thanks
     
  9. wheeler4x4

    wheeler4x4 Member
    Messages: 38

    I have been using cable system for years. When I ran into this problem it turned out to be the "platen". Thats where the joy stick screws into the tower. The threadd brass insert came loose and acted just like the cable was out of adjustment. I was able to pull the tower apert & epoxy the brass insert solid on one unit but had to replace another one. Less than $30.00 & an hour labor. I hope this helps.
     
  10. property mgr

    property mgr Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Switched hoses (right for left) Now same problems, opposite side

    OK, as a test, I switched the hoses at the block, right for left, left for right, and this makes the plow angle slow to the right now. Exact same problems but opposite side of vehicle. With the hoses switched I move the controller to the right and the plow moves fast to the left with no inconsistency in about a dozen angles. When I move the controller to the left, the blade moves slower to the right than it now does to the left. And I still have my delay on about every third or forth angle to the right now. The motor is still running when the delay occurs but the plow does not move.

    I timed the angle movement at a consistent 4 seconds for a complete right to left angel during this round of about a dozen tests. However, the left to right angle generally took about 9 seconds. Out of about 12 left to right angle cycles, 6 seconds was the best, usually 9 seconds, and twice it delayed for about 5 seconds with no movement and then went very slowly to the right. When it delays more than 5 seconds I would back off the controller to neutral and try again. Thats when it would complete the angle cycle slowly. I believe one time I stayed on the controller and it eventually moves slowly after about 10 seconds. The motor is running during the delay--you can hear it and see the amps draw down.

    If I understand this test, both cylinders appear to be working properly. By the way, they look ok--no leaking. Now I'm really thinking my cable may have a problem needing an adjustment--which brings me back to my original post--I'm not sure my cable can be adjusted and I do not know where to find the Western service bulletin that is referenced in the mechanic's manual. Or (since the valve travel when I removed the cover and inspected the cable operation appeared very close to what the manual calls for) maybe more likely, there may be a problem in the controller or in the actual valve block?

    I have not taken the controller apart yet since I wanted to tell you guys about this test first.

    What would you guys look at next?

    Thanks for sticking with me on this.
     
  11. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Ok,I'd say it's a cable problem. If you have someone operate the controller while you watch the lever on the 4 way valve you'll see that to angle left the cable has to push the lever down.And to angle right,it pull's the lever up.If you have any cable problem's at all 9 time's out of 10 it will be the left angle due to the fact that to angle left it need to push.A cable pulls much better than it will push and if their's any play in the cable It'll stop "pushing" but will still pull. These cable pumps can be a nightmare to get the angle cable adjusted "just right" to allow the proper travel in BOTH direction's and if it has non adjustable cable's on it like yours, it can be virtually impossible. I'd HIGHLY recommend replacing the angle cable with a newer style adjustable cable as their not expensive and I think it will solve your problem.
     
  12. Rickco

    Rickco Member
    Messages: 89

    I agree 100%
     
  13. property mgr

    property mgr Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    I'll watch the 4 way while someone operates the control

    I agree, I'll have to have someone operate the control while I'm watching the 4 way valve travel to see if its hanging up during the times it moves slow or delays. Sounds like a new adjustable cable is in my near future.

    I'll let you know what happens. Thanks for the help.
     
  14. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Another easy test is to disconnect the cable from the valve lever and manually operate the lever up and down in the angle left and right position while a helper moves the controller back and forth. If it work's consistently to the left every time then you can be sure it's a cable problem.NOTE: BE VERY CAREFUL WHILE MOVING THE BLADE and do not stand between the plow and the truck!!!!
     
  15. property mgr

    property mgr Junior Member
    Messages: 20

    Problem fixed

    The cable adjustment took care of the problem guys. No more inconsistent movement on the angles. New cable adjustment is working fine after a few turns of the nut and some experimenting. Consistent angle speed and no delays!

    We have 4 or 5 inches coming to St. Louis Saturday night. I think I'm ready this time. The last big snow in December took out my plow motor on the first pass of the first apartment lot. Plowed for an hour and a half with the plow on the ground--no up and down or right and left, many extra passes--not much fun.

    Thanks for all the help.
     
  16. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Glad to hear the adjustable cable got ya all fixed up.