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Western 8' Pro plow raising slowly

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by Flyboy77, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. Flyboy77

    Flyboy77 Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    I have a conventional Western 8' Pro with electronic joystick control. It's working but towards the end of my long day of plowing, it started raising slower while stacking. Left to right still working, but might also be slower. Today, it seems to be raising even slower. I had the fluid changed and new hoses at the beginning of season and it was new to me. Plow seems to be from 1994 but in pretty good shape. It's not a Uni or Ultra, it's a behind the bumper liftframe.

    What are the common posibilities?
    It's an older plow, so weak motor? I was considering getting a new motor anyway. It seems easy enough to replace.
    Would a clogged filter or low fluid cause a slow down?

    I have a dealer here that I could take it to, but I'd have to take off work(only open regular business hours) and all parts are full suggested retail prices. Worth it for a difficult issue, but wondering if there were some general maintenance things I could eliminate myself. I'm not in emergency mode yet, but will probably need it working right this weekend.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. nealybird

    nealybird Senior Member
    Messages: 716

    Hi Flyboy.
    an 8' pro conventional would have to be from the 80's I think. couldn't be too far into the 90's anyway, if I remember right.

    But yes, the best thing to do when you change fluid is drain the cylinders and hoses, pull the motor off, pull the pump out, clean out the reservoir with brake cleaner, change the oring on the bottom of the pump, bolt the pump back in, put new fluid in, put the motor back on with a new motor gasket.

    But at this point to figure out if it's a fluid problem or a motor problem - if the motor is going bad it will draw too many amps, dimming the lights more than it used to. It may also smell burnt or sound growly.
    But if the screen is clogged, then the motor will sound high pitched because it's spinning with no load, because the pump can't suck any fluid.

    Other than that, other possibilities could be cable adjustments, or lift valve /check valve adjustments. But I'd rule out the other possibilities first.
     
  3. linckeil

    linckeil PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,265

    i think what he is saying is he has an SEHP (unimount style) pump on a conventional frame. i have the same setup on my 96 F350. conventional frames were built until 1994ish, and the SEHP pump came out in 1991ish. so western did offer a SEHP pump with the conventional frame for a 3 or so year period.



    pull the motor off and check the filter. it probably is clogged. filter are easily cleaned. cleaning out entire pump is a good idea, but i would start with the filter first.

    if that doens't fix it, put a gauge on it. you should see about 1800 psi. pressure can be adjusted by turning the relief valve in clockwise (1/4 turn is about 225 psi). its a good idea to have a 2500-3000 psi gauge on hand with a coupler end on it to snap into one of the angling hose lines. i use mine whenever trouble shooting.
     
  4. Flyboy77

    Flyboy77 Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    It's not a cable operated. Here's a pic. It could have been converted I guess from cable to a newer pump. I'm pretty sure I saw 1994 on it before I repainted it, but didn't see anything like a manufactured on date. I did remove the elbow on the hose in the pic and put a straight through coupler a few months ago. But Monday was my first time working it really hard (most of the day from 6am - midnight).

    8ft_Western_plow-LiftFrame-Pump-small3.jpg
     
  5. Flyboy77

    Flyboy77 Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    1. I would need to drain the reservoir to check the filter, correct? How many quarts of fluid for a reservoir fluid change?

    2. Where's a good place to get such a gauge? Something like Northern Tool or a tractor supply?

    Thanks for the replies! :drinkup:
     
  6. linckeil

    linckeil PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,265

    1) no. just pull the motor off and the pump will be sitting there submerged in fluid. the filter is on the front of the pump. i would remove the pump entirely by removing the 2 bolts holding it to the housing (you will see 4 bolts, but 2 on a diagonal secure it to the housing - i cant remember which 2, but you'll figure it out.) when reinsalling just be sure that O-ring on bottom of pump is there and securely pressed into the pump.

    2) can't remember where i got mine. 2500-3000 psi reading is what you want with 1/4" NPT threads so that a quick disconnect coupler can be installed. something like this:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1-2-Dry-U...4-NPT-Lower-Mount-0-to-3000-PSI-/181670725432

    liquid filled could be used as well to keep the needle from dancing around. mine is liquid filled, but dry would work too.
     
  7. linckeil

    linckeil PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,265

  8. Flyboy77

    Flyboy77 Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    Also, when checking the fluid level, is my pump at a bad angle? (see pic) The fluid level plug isn't very much higher than the drain plug. Should I do the filling with the whole housing removed from the frame? Seems like not much room for fluid with the housing. The pictures in the manual show the housing upright, but mine isn't even with the lift frame close to straight. Sorry if these are dumb questions. The manual doesn't say to remove the whole thing to change fluid.
     
  9. PLOWMAN45

    PLOWMAN45 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,832

    go to youtube and look up mossman381 he a whole video on this
     
  10. Flyboy77

    Flyboy77 Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    WooHoo! We have speedy lift again! And much cleaner fluid. Metal screen filter was very clogged, but cleanable, so I'll have a spare and enough extra fluid (bought a gallon) should it need it again.

    The angle rams should be clean since they only get screened fluid sent to them. It was obviously screening because it was pumping very slow. There was some sludge in the bottom. Definitely easier to clean out with the pump removed.

    Thanks all! You saved me from a desperate trip to the dealer and taught me future repairs.
     
  11. Flyboy77

    Flyboy77 Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    Here's a pic of the inside and the dirty filter. Notice the sludge in the corners.
    :mechanic:

    Sludge_In_Pump-small.jpg
     
  12. linckeil

    linckeil PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,265

    it is not uncommon. i had one season where i had to clean the darn thing after every storm. then next season i replaced both angling rams and i never had to do it again, except during the annual fluid change.

    even the slightest pitting on the angling or lift cylinders and cause a lint or felt like substance to clog the filter. this subtance is the wipes on the pistons being eaten away at by the pitted cylinders and then flowing through the system and ultimately clogging the filter.

    my advice to you is to carefully inspect your cylinders, get a pressure guage for testing purposes, and thorougly clean the reservior at the start of each season - which for me includes taking just about everything completely apart and cleaning each component individually. you'd be surprised where gunk accumulates that a simple fluid change would never clean out. also flush the fluid from the angling rams because you don't want that dirty old fluid going back into your nice clean pump.

    these pumps are very simple and super reliable.
     
  13. nealybird

    nealybird Senior Member
    Messages: 716

    yea, as soon as I posted that, I realized that he hadn't actually said it was cable control yet. ... but what I posted still applied until the last line.
     
  14. Flyboy77

    Flyboy77 Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    Thank you very much for all the help, linckeil!

    I did buy one of those gauges (0-3000lbs, liquid filled) at Northern Tool for $12 last night. I didn't buy another quick connect there since they were $22 and have seen them much cheaper. I figured I can screw it in if I needed to test it last night and order the quick connect online. I didn't test pressure because I didn't have a second person available to push the joystick to the left while I read the gauge. And it's obviously working way better that before the filter change.

    There were a couple tiny rust pits on the rams that I touched up with sand paper when I first got this. I've kept it in my garage the whole time I've owned it and haven't seen any pitting. Yeah, I guess I should empty the dirty fluid from the rams since I just put new fluid in the reservoir. Then I'll know for sure if the filter clogs again that new rams are needed (Dogplow Dodge provided a link to PPW that had great prices on rams). Some great time saving advice right there!

    I also noticed that my "installer" put on thread tape when they installed the quick connects (see above pic). So I guess I'll disconnect it at these points to flush it and get rid of that tape, I don't want my pump eating that tape either.
     
  15. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    When you do a fluid service it is a good idea to purge the Rams at the some time. Pitting indicates water in the fluid. No sense changing reservoir fluid and then contaminating it with 2 liters of dirty, wet fluid coming back from the Rams.
    When you do your pressure test go right to the end of ram travel until it squeals and goes over pressure relief. That's when you will see max pressure. You should see about 1500 psi.