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Ultra Mount Pro No Power

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by red dog, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. red dog

    red dog Junior Member
    Messages: 24

    8 ` straight Pro on 2003 GMC 2500 HD not switchinging over to plow lights when hooked up and has no power to handheld.There is no fuse inline to handheld and no fuse in handheld so that is not the cause for no power at handheld .All ground connections are good and plugs have no corrosion.The system is a 3 port 3 plug set up.A new selinoid was installed and a new isolation modual was tried made no difference. A new 11 pin truckside harness was tried and still no power.Also checked plow lights for corrosion and everything looked good.All grounds to battery and pump were cleaned .The truck idles rough and was running rough when plow give out.The handheld starting blinking last time truck and plow was moved and then give out .Neither plow or remote have functioned since. Is there a ground on the truck that could cause this?
     
  2. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,602

    Sounds like a ground issue to me.
     
  3. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,602

    Sorry, last response was a a little bit not helpful.

    If lights are not changing over and plow controller is not coming on, your entire system is not receiving 12v. Either on the 12v positive or the ground. I would start there if I were you.

    Try a test light to see where your voltage stops.
     
  4. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,970

    Reck your main truck ground where the plow ground is hooked up as was said.
    Your changed solenoid, did you reinstall the red/gn wire to the batt side?
    Is you red wire in the cab hooked up to a good power source?
     
  5. red dog

    red dog Junior Member
    Messages: 24

    All wires hooked up.Power from battery to selinoid. Plow was installed at dealer and operated fine for 5 years.So all wiring is in proper location.Power is at connection in cab for red wire.
     
  6. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,970

    Have power at the plow fuses, in and out?
    There's a jumper wire off going to the solenoid, that needs to be on the power side.
     
  7. red dog

    red dog Junior Member
    Messages: 24

    Wires were reinstalled on selinoid same as old one.All fuses were checked and are good(4 under hood).Will check with tester to see if power going to those locations( fuses).
     
  8. Randall Ave

    Randall Ave PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,980

    Had one about the same year, was having electrical issues. The body to frame grounds were not making good contact. You need to check all your grounds. An OHM meter can be very helpful. Thumbs Up
     
  9. dstifel

    dstifel Senior Member
    from Iowa
    Messages: 188

    Had this happen last year controller is bad
     
  10. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,602

    It is not your controller.

    Controller being bad will not cause plow lights to not change over. His problem is long before the controller.


    It is a ground issue.
     
  11. dstifel

    dstifel Senior Member
    from Iowa
    Messages: 188

    It did on mine
     
  12. red dog

    red dog Junior Member
    Messages: 24

    Daytime running lights were functioning yesterday but today they never came on. Starting to wonder if vehical ground is problem.Installed a ground from the battery to vehical body never made a difference.Truck is idling very rough and was running bad when plow gave out.
     
  13. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    You need to get into the schematics and verify systematically..... You say power and grounds are good.... Are you familiar with the plow presence circuit? In the headlight 11 pin plug at the grill there are two pins that connect to the plow side and loop right back to the truck and complete a circuit to ground telling the isolation module that the plow is present. This is what switches your truck lights to the plow and sends power to light up the controller. Quite often the problem you are experiencing is a result of a bad ground interconnect. There are three of these "interconnects" all three have a single wire going in and out, all are black wires with an orange tracer. The first one will be very close to the isolation module. It connects a wire from the cable plugged into port A of the isolation module to the headlight harness which is plugged into B and C ports of the module. It's pretty easy to find. The second one is near one of your headlights, usually the driver's side (if the iso module is on the driver's side). Look for a black four pin plug that goes through an adapter and then plugs into the control harness. A few inches from that black four pin plug you will find a second single wire black plastic connector the same as the one by the isolation module, this is the second ground interconnect. The last one is about 16 inches from the negative battery post. Follow the Western cable from the battery post and you will see a large cable and a small black / org wire that leads to the third ground interconnect. Check all of these ground interconnects to be sure they are clean and firmly connected. You can use an ohm meter to verify they are good. If there are any bad connections on this string of plugs the plow will not be recognized.

    Something else you can do is turn your truck ignition on and then probe the 11 pin grill plug for the hot wire. There will be one that is hot, it may not light your test light brightly but it will be the only one that lights up at all. Take a jumper and ground that pin out. You will hear the isolation module click and the handheld controller will light up. You can also pull the plug out of port A at the isolation module and probe for the same pin there. It will be pin C, again, the only one that lights up your test light. Find it and ground it out effectively bypassing all three ground interconnects and associated wiring. But be careful not to touch the other pins because they will become hot as soon as the module thinks there is a plow connected....

    Look at page three of this link http://library.westernplows.com/pdfs/29206&29225.05_050108.pdf The interconnects are not labelled but if you look close you will see them...

    By the way, I agree with the above statement that the controller will not stop the headlights from switching over. In fact you can remove the controller completely and the lights will still switch....
    Port A pin C
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
  14. red dog

    red dog Junior Member
    Messages: 24

    All ground interconnects are good. I tried a new 11 pin harness on truck side made no difference. Also a new isolation modual so this would eliminate the need for checking for the hot and testing connection A on isolation modual. However I did not try new modual and 11 pin harness at same time.
     
  15. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Replacing the 11 harness (plow lights) doesn't eliminate the need to probe the plug for power is just eliminates that cable as a cause of the problem. it's still something that you should check to see if the plow presence circuit is enabled. 12 volts starts at the battery and goes to one of the big lugs at the solenoid. There is follows the red/green wire to the two fuses by the adapter cable. One will be 15 amps and the other is 7.5. They are both fed by that red/green so they should be hot all the time but only power from the 15 goes anywhere so that's the only one that matters. From there power goes through the adapter into the headlight harness and finally on to the two fuses right by the isolation modules and then into plug B (pin F) and plug C (pin F). The wire going to plug B is sends 12V back out plug B (pin C) to send power to light up the hand held controller when the plow is connected.

    I suggest you probe all the above points to verify your isolation module is getting power to all the appropriate pins. If you use an incandescent test light (not LED) to verify power at the plug B and C (pins F on both) then you know everything from there to the battery is good. If there is no power at one of those two pins then work your way back.

    I say don't use an LED test light because they don't load the circuit enough. If you have a bad connection somewhere an LED light will burn bright but a test light with a regular bulb it will not.

    Now comes the part where we verify that the isolation module is sending power out to the grill plug on the 11 pin light plug. If those two F pins on plugs B and C are hot then there will be power on pin 7 at the grill (black/org) when the ignition is on. Depending on your truck lights there may also be power on some other pins for markers and DRLs. You can also disconnect plug A on the isolation module and test for power there on pin C. If pin C is hot you can jump it to ground, the isolation module will click and the handheld controller will light up because it thinks the plow is connected.

    If all these points check out OK then perhaps the loop back in the plow side of the 11 pin plug is bad. Pins 2 and 7 on the plow side are the loop back. So if you use an ohm meter across those two pins you will have almost 0 resistance because it's just a few inches of copper wire connecting them.

    If, as you say, you have verified all your grounds and ground interconnects and this all checks out too then it may be time to take it to take it too a dealer.

    I am looking at page 15 of this link: http://library.westernplows.com/ddcommon/dd_pdf/pdfs/22373.07_110108_for_web.pdf
    Maybe have a look for yourself and see if you can follow my logic...... Hope this helped.
     
  16. Snow Commandor

    Snow Commandor Senior Member
    from 07666
    Messages: 439

    I've run into problems with those ground connections and my solution was to eliminate the plastic connector and but splice the wires together.
     
  17. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Another good thing to verify is plug C, pin C at the module. This is the end of the red wire that connects to an ignition source. Because of its location where it enters the harness by the controller plug people expect one of the pins in the controller plug to be hot with ign but that's not the case, not directly. Ign power first goes to plug C, pin C and then only if the plow is present and the presence circuit is working will the isolation module forward power to the controller out of plug B pin C. Bottom line is that the controller will NOT turn on unless plug C pin C is hot.

    As far as those ground interconnects go.... I have never cut one out and crimped it. If they are good plugs and they are closed tight they have a good seal and will work indefinitely. When I do an install I like to put a bit of dielectric grease on all my connections for that much more protection. It also makes them slide together easier and displaces moisture. I would never cut one out unless it was failing.
     
  18. red dog

    red dog Junior Member
    Messages: 24

    Power at 11 pin checked with tester 1 pin lit it 15 and 7.5 fuse getting power.No power to the two 10 amp fuses next to isolation modual.
     
  19. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,970

    Here's the schematic....

    Screenshot_2016-01-19-21-07-50.jpg
     
  20. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    OK that narrows things down a lot! Follow the control harness past the 15 and 7.5A fuses. One way the harness will come to a four point intersection, that's the wrong way. Go the other direction and you will run into a 10 pin plug and a black plastic single wire (black / org) ground interconnect. The 10 pin plug and ground connect to the headlight harness through an adapter. At the far end of the adapter there is a 4 pin connector. If you unplug the adapter from the headlight harness you will find one pin should be 12V always, another will be 12V with the key on. Another will be a ground. The last wire will be dead, it is the power feed to the handheld controller. If you jump from the full time 12V pin to the dead red wire the controller will light up and the plow functions will work but the lights won't work because we have effectively disconnected the isolation module from the system.....
    I expect when you probe that 4 pin plug you will find that there is no full time 12V. You have a problem in that adapter or one of the plugs, either the 10 pin or the 4 pin, possibly the wires between the two plugs.

    The schematic that DieselSS has posted above shows that adapter, the 10 pin plug, the 4 pin plug and the two pair of fuses. That's what you need to see. (thanks for that DieselSS)

    Notice how the 7.5 amp fuse ends at the 10 pin plug...... But the 10 amp fuse continues down the line. That's the full time 12V signal that you are missing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016