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ultra mount plugs

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by harrydodge, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. harrydodge

    harrydodge Junior Member
    from 49747
    Messages: 5

    have a 2 plug on my 96 gmc found a newer plow with 3 plug looks like third plug works lights will the 2 plug work the plow or will I blow something up. Thank you.
     
  2. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,638

    you are correct on your startment.

    One plug runs lighting, one controls the plow valves

    You can just convert the plow back to 2 plug by changing the light/plow harness
     
  3. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    This is my third attempt to comment on this post, my point gets more brief each time. Sorry if all three posts show up eventually...

    Don't convert the plow to two plug. That's like converting a nuclear sub to coal and steam! The two plug is old technology abandoned by Western long ago. Spend the money to upgrade the truck to three plug, three port isolation module from the old relays and make it reliable.
     
  4. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Two plug combines the lights and the plow controls and is run with unreliable, problematic loose relays. One plug is for the motor power while the other is for lights and controls. I find it much easier to keep the three systems isolated. Troubleshooting and repair are simpler and cheaper. Lights on one plug, controls on the second and motor power on the third. Some will argue that the new Western plows have gone back to the two plugs. But lets not compare apples to ardvarks. This new system (multiplex) is a whole new animal. One plug is still for lights only while the second plug is for unswitched battery power and two small pins for multiplex communication. This is a whole new ballgame.
     
  5. harrydodge

    harrydodge Junior Member
    from 49747
    Messages: 5

    ultra mount

    By what I'am reading I can plug the 2 plugs in and the plow will work but no lights?
     
  6. harrydodge

    harrydodge Junior Member
    from 49747
    Messages: 5

    how much would it cost to change my truck to a 3 plug ?
     
  7. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Not a chance! I have never seen that. Your plow has a different plug for controls with three pins while the truck has a 12 pin plug. They don't go together.

    The cost is the issue. First you need a controller ($200 - $400), then you need the controller cable ($75), an isolation module and headlight harness ($275) and finally the cost to have it done if you have to pay someone for about two or three hours work. Please don't hold me to these prices, I am an installer and don't ever see the bills. I only know from my own plow and a few side jobs. Other's will know prices better.

    I would expect the whole conversion will be under $1000 where converting the plow (back to coal / steam) will only be about $75 plus some cussing and swearing because the wires won't fit right.

    I think the deciding factor will be "what is the plow supposed to have?" Since the newer plow is an ultra-mount (I think you said) then upgrade the truck to the isolation module and three plugs. This way it is installed correctly, everything matches, when you go for service there will be no confusion, and anyone who looks to buy it will not be thrown off my unusual modifications. Will look like a complete and original setup.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  8. harrydodge

    harrydodge Junior Member
    from 49747
    Messages: 5

    ultra

    looks to me like they would fit the 3 plug has less pins in the plug.I just don't want to fry any wires
     
  9. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    As I recall the 12 pin (two plug on the truck) has several different sized pins in the plug.) Are you sure that there is a place in the female for all the extra pins to go when you plug them in? On the three wire system there are only three pins in the control cable, one for each of the three valves. They are right in the middle of the plug as you will see.

    Thinking a bit more I have to wonder if the plow will fire up at all. On the 12 pin plug there is one pin that sends power through which loops back to ground to tell the truck that the plow is connected. On the three cable plow that jumper that feeds back to tell the truck the plow is there is in the headlight harness that you won't even plug in.

    Sorry my friend but I am sure that even if the plugs did fit together and didn't fry anything the controller would not even light up to activate the plow. You are condemed to change at least the plow light / control harness to make things run.
     
  10. RepoMan207

    RepoMan207 PlowSite Fanatic
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,037

    Mish is obviously correct, it doesn't work that way. In regards to upgrading, I'm afraid I have to disagree....re wire the plow, it's cheaper. Screw reliability. I ran a relay system for over 10 years, not one problem other then a motor relay now and again...and they're on both systems anyway. I have a buddy that has been running a relay system since 96, and he refuses to upgrade. If the truck wasn't already setup....then sure; but it is, and it's cheap to convert the plow. Run her till she pukes, or you go with a multi positioning plow.
     
  11. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Repoman has a strong argument. The relay system can be very reliable and has been very good for many people for many years. I can also tell you about the people who pull their hair out trying to fix the relays. There are so many different versions ranging from three to six relays and they are very difficult to fix when they fail. If you read all the electrical threads on this site you would know that. But if your relay setup is working reliably, and you know it intamately then you could save yourself a bundle. That single 12 pin light / control harness for the plow is only about $75. I know that ultimately 90% of my customers would go with the lower cost option despite my efforts to get them to upgrade.
     
  12. harrydodge

    harrydodge Junior Member
    from 49747
    Messages: 5

    Stupid me looked at wrong plug they will not plug in.Anyways I bought an 8' pro ultra mount for 1400.00 with the 3 plug. looks good and was told everything works.I have an older 7.5 poly on my 96 gmc and wanted a 8' plow.my plow the 2 plug works good so I guess I will just change blades and lights if the lights can be wired to work on my 2 plug plow they are the night hawk and look like they would be a lot brighter, and sell the rest. Thank you for all your input.
     
  13. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,638

    Thanks for doing all the typing foot work on that one Repo. As I was reading your post there Mish, I was laughing to myself thinking of how much money was getting thrown down the drain on a almost 20 year old truck. I have converted all the plows that I have every had to 2 plug and built my own truckside harness' just to avoid the isolation box for years. Somthing with all the parts sealed up where you cannot diagnose a problem has never made a lick of sence to me.


    Harry -you can re wire the nightwawks into the older style 2 plug harness and have the nighthawks on your 2 plug. Just take off the covers and match the wiring. If you need wiring diagrams, let me know, I can send them to you. I have done it with countless plows it will work.
     
  14. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    To each their own... I have only ever replaced one isolation module in my almost ten years of servicing plows and that one was broken from being jamed under the hood hinge. I have spent many costly hours though tracking down broken / detatched wires and bad relays in the old two plug system. I have also replace numerous 12 pin combination plugs at the grill. Everyone has their own stories and preferances. But like I say, as often as I have tried to convince people to ditch their relay systems they generally would rather pay the time to troubleshoot and keep their old relay systems. That seems to be human nature these days. I have learned from bitter experience that the cheap way is not always the best in the long term.

    "Screw reliability" So typical to hear. But what I hate to hear even more is "I just had a relay replaced last year, why do I have to pay again to have another repiar this year?" Have a look at that bunch of relays haning loose on 25 to 30 (depending on system, four to six relays) unsoldered, unsealed connectors just stuffed into the engine compartment, usually right beside the battery. Then look at the nice, sealed, tidy isolation module with only three or four labelled plugs. There is a reason Western engineers don't use that setup anymore. Again I say to each their own.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  15. Western1

    Western1 Senior Member
    from MI.
    Messages: 679

    The relay wiring is still very reliable. The isolation wiring is alot more costly to achieve the same thing. Yes the iso is more reliable but in most cases it doesn't justify the expense. The relay wiring is not that hard to diagnose if you know what your doing. IMO