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True Or Not /?????

Discussion in 'Fisher Engineering Discussion' started by zippy1, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. zippy1

    zippy1 Junior Member
    Messages: 23

    I have a new 8' HD Fisher plow. When I angle the blade all the way to the right and then move it back to the left it makes a loud pop/binding sound and jumps as it moves from full right to the left. The plow is not catching on anything. It acts like it is caught on something and then breaks free. It sounds like it is bound up and then pops free. The left side does not do it. And if you angle the plow blade 3/4 of the way to the right and then return to center it does not jump and make the sound. Only when angled all the way to the right. I went to the fisher dealer where I purchased the plow and he said a large amount of plows using the fishstick control does this. He said it does not happen to all of the plows but a good number of them. He said it is the hydraulic valve opening quickly causing the "smack" as he called it. I don't know whether to belive him or not. I showed him the plow and what it did and he said it sounds like the plow is jumping off the rtuck but it is normal and will not hurt anything. I don't know whether to belive him or not. Do any of you guys have this sound and jaring of the plow when at full right returning to center? Thanks for the help and information. DOES ANYONE HAVE A CONTACT PHONE NUMBER FOR FISHER THAT I CAN CALL????
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  2. toby4492

    toby4492 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,513


    Fisher Engineering
    (207) 701-4200
     
  3. john95chevy

    john95chevy Junior Member
    Messages: 22

    my mm1 does the same thing but i dont have a fishstick. i have no clue what it is but it dosent really bother me. also i dont think it does it all the time, maybe 50% of the time
     
  4. rtm038

    rtm038 Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 231

    I think you're fine. With the Insta-Act system, when angling to the left, the pump sends fluid to the base of the right cylinder causing it to extend. As the right cylinder extends, it pushes the blade left, which causes the left cylinder to collapse. At the same time, a small portion of the fluid that is being sent to the base of the right cylinder is diverted to a pilot-operated check valve. Once enough pressure is applied to the pilot-operated check valve, the valve opens and allows the fluid from the retracting left cylinder to return to the reservoir. When you take your finger off the "angle left" button (or move the joystick to neutral), the pump stops sending fluid to the right cylinder and pressure at the pilot-operated check valve drops below that of the valve's return spring. Once this pressure drop occurs, the pilot-operated check valve's return spring closes the valve (sharply). The "sharp" closing of the pilot-operated check valve stops the blade quickly, which can cause a "bang" to be heard. Some of the "bang" is the "hydraulic hammer" (caused by the sudden closing of the pilot-operated check valve), while the rest can be attributed to the "loose" fit between the A-frame and headgear.

    If what I just described is not what you're experiencing, then consider:
    1. Fluid level: If the fluid level is too low, the system may not have the capacity to fill (i.e. pressurize) the right cylinder consistently, while keeping enough pressure on the pilot-operated check valve to keep it open. Like I said above, if the pressure placed on the pilot-operated check valve drops below the return spring setting, the valve will close until the pilot pressure increases enough to open the valve again.

    2. Air in the hydraulic system: If there is air in the system, hydraulic functions will be negatively affected. Getting air out of the system is a relatively easy task. After making sure the fluid level is right and all the hoses/connections are tight, simply raise/lower/angle right/left over and over again until all movements are flawless (i.e. when the pumps comes on, whatever movement you're asking it to perform should begin almost immediately).

    Just something to think about. Good luck.
     
  5. zippy1

    zippy1 Junior Member
    Messages: 23

    Wow, that was one hell of a response!Thank you. I am not sure if your description described my problem but it does shine some light on it. I have two college degrees in science and I had to read that response twice.
     
  6. rtm038

    rtm038 Senior Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 231

    I'm not that good at writing descriptions sometimes, so I hope I didn't confuse you. Basically, the Insta-Act system angles smoother to the right, than to the left because of the design of the hydraulic circuit.

    I've reviewed your original post again and I have a few questions for you.
    1. It's my understanding that you're only experiencing this loud pop/binding sound/issue while angling to the left from the extreme right. Correct?

    2. While I think your plow is fine (95% sure), you could always manually check the blade for binding. You can do this by raising the blade a few inches (not all the way) and placing a jack/jackstand under the A-frame. Then remove the front pins from the angle cylinders and rotate them away from the blade. Now cycle the blade from left to right and see if there is any binding. While cycling the blade left to right, take note of the main pivot pin that attaches the front of the A-frame to the backside of the blade. Check the clearance between the moldboard and A-frame mounting surfaces. (see pic)

    3. If you experience no binding during the "manual" test, then reinstall the front pins for the angle cylinders and perform a "powered" test (i.e. using the hydraulic system), by having someone the run the plow for you, while you look it over.

    If the binding presents itself during the "powered" test, I'd say it's either normal operation, low fluid or air in the system. Good luck.

    Untitled-1.jpg
     
  7. Morrissey snow removal

    Morrissey snow removal PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,799

    fish stick

    bought a new mother board for and that was the problem did about ten things before that good luck
     
  8. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    Our new Extreme V started making a popping and moaning noise the other night. It was very loud, especially at 4am. I called the dealer and his suggestion was to make sure everything was lubed using Fluid Film. Well I narrowed down the sound, it was coming from the top plate where the piston connects to the top of the plow (between the lights). So I lubed it up really well and the noises were gone! It still made a slight popping noise but it was hardley noticable after lubing.
     
  9. Gicon

    Gicon Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 989

    Zippy, it sounds like its Air in the lines. If you go all the way left, and all the way right for a minute or two, it doesnt work itself out? If it doesnt, you have a bigger problem. This problem is most popular after the plow has been sitting for 6 months or so. It should not be a common occurence.
     
  10. mcwlandscaping

    mcwlandscaping 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,557

    This was happening to the plow at my dads office last year, well, very similar. I took a look and come to find out, my dad (who is the groundskeeper there for some OT.) thought that the plow ran 100% electricly and there wasn't any hydro fluid at all in the thing to change or check, and this is after about 4 years of plowing with it. So, after nice ego buster for my dad :D and a fluid change, the sounds were gone and it works fine now!
     
  11. zippy1

    zippy1 Junior Member
    Messages: 23

    I called Fisher today and they said they have never heard of this problem. He called the dealer that I bought the plow from and the guy that I spoke to on the phone and in person bout my problem.. Brian from Fisher called back and left a message on my machine stating the guy I spoke to claims I only spoke to him on the phone. Now thats odd, considering I got up extra early the other morning to make the drive out to STS where I bought the plow so I could speak face to face with this guy. Why would he say he never saw me? Was he concerned that Fisher would be upset for telling me it is normal. These guys keep telling me that the only problem they are aware of is stopping the blade in motion can sometimes be rough. Not my issue. I removed the bleeder cap, raised the front end of the truck on ramps, and lowered the blade all the way to let any air rise. Then I moved the blade back and forth and up and down several times. No change. I just wish I could get a straight answer on this. It could be nothing other than an irritance or something more. I am just ticked off that the guy at STS in Syracuse told Fisher he only spoke to me on the phone. If they were not so far away from me I would be back down there on my next day off. It would most likely do me no good.
     
  12. zippy1

    zippy1 Junior Member
    Messages: 23

    Well here is the rest of the story. I went back to the dealer and he agreed that the problem was not normal and he had never seen it before. He grabed a truck that they just installed the same plow on and we tested it. That new plow did the same thing. So I guess it is normal and just part of the design of the valve setup in the hydraulic system. Thanks for all of the input and advice. I appreciated it!

    Brian
     
  13. justme-

    justme- 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,138

    I would talk to Fisher again- doesn;t sound "right" reguardless if the theory seems correct.

    FWIW my MM1 did that all of the sudden too, only going to the left, and only at a certain angle. Then one time is simply locked up solid. It would go right, but not past that point left.

    With it locked left a quick viual inspection reveiled the issue- the carry chain was hanging too low and had been trapped in the a-frame when the blade pivoted. It had been in the way causing a bind then popping out until now, when it was firmly clamped in. I ran a bungie to hold the slack out- problem solved.

    Not saying this is your problem, but it took me 3 or 4 storms to actually find the problem.....it may be something totally unrelated to they hydraulic system.
     
  14. daninline

    daninline Senior Member
    Messages: 430

    Maybe there doing somthing on there installs thats causing this.
    So they all act the same
     
  15. gordyo

    gordyo Senior Member
    Messages: 527

    This is exactly what I was getting ready to post reading through this thread untill I came upon this post from justme. I also had the same thing happen on an F-250 and it too was the carry chain binding up just like justme states. One way to tell for sure is to check the carry chain and see if any of the links are bunged up, then you will know it has been jambing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2006
  16. daninline

    daninline Senior Member
    Messages: 430


    that happened to me last year also.
    quick fix but this will drive you crazy for sure.
     
  17. Idealtim

    Idealtim Senior Member
    Messages: 268

    I also had the same problem on my mm1. I thought it was a bent pin on something but when I looked closer, I could see the pinch marks on the A-frames where they intersect and how thw chain was to long. A wire tie did the trick. God did it sound aweful before...
     
  18. frehawk

    frehawk Junior Member
    Messages: 12

    Same problem here with 03 8' Fisher MM2 the dealer told me there was nothing they can do about it.
     
  19. LON

    LON Senior Member
    Messages: 749

    Just to clearify, are you using the joystick or hand-held Fish-Stik?
    With the joystick I know what the trouble could be.
    With the Fish-Stik it would be new to me.
    Lon
     
  20. zippy1

    zippy1 Junior Member
    Messages: 23

    Where in the A-Frame was the carry chain getting in the way causing it to bind? By the way the controler is the Fishstick.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2006