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Trouble changing fluid in turn rams

Discussion in 'Residential Snow Removal' started by rswojo, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. rswojo

    rswojo Member
    Messages: 50

    I have a 1978 Meyer snow plow with an E-47 pump. I believe the plow is an ST-70?

    I watched the instruction video from Smith Brothers for changing the fluid in the angle rams. I disconnected both hoses from the rams and tried turning the A-frame and it wouldn't budge. I then tried using an eight foot 2X4 as a lever arm - same results. I then got serious and got out my backhoe. I put the bucket on the A-frame and attempted to turn it with the hoe, the plow started to lift off the ground. Then I drove the truck up and parked it on the plow and pulled with the backhoe. That did the trick but my backhoe was straining to move those pistons.

    The plow pump seems to angle the plow either way without straining. They should be easy to empty with both hoses off, right? The A-frame moves freely with the rams off. Am I doing something wrong or is there something wrong?

    Sorry, this should have been posted in the "Truck and Equipment Repair" section. If a mod sees this please move it there, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  2. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,001

    You gotta take the fittings off the ends of the angle rams
     
  3. rswojo

    rswojo Member
    Messages: 50

    I had the hoses and fittings off. All I had was two rams with the threaded hole for the fitting on one ram and the threaded hole for the hose on the other. There was nothing impeding fluid or air from exiting the ram if it was compressed.
     
  4. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,001

    Hummm. Try taking the hoses off at the cylinders themselfs
     
  5. rswojo

    rswojo Member
    Messages: 50

    I had the cylinders still bolted to the A frame. No hoses or fittings on either one, just like they would be if you took them brand new out of the box.
     
  6. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,001

    Ok you got me.
     
  7. Fantastic

    Fantastic Senior Member
    Messages: 187

    Will the fluid drain out if you turn the rams upside down... I know this would be a pain to flip it over if they are still attached to the frame... And are the rams meyer rams?
     
  8. rswojo

    rswojo Member
    Messages: 50

    It was so difficult to compress the rams I decided to spend about $200 on new ones. The original Meyer rams were 35 years old. When I took the old ones off fluid did run out of them. When I put the new ones on I still couldn't angle the plow by hand. I had to connect them to the pump to get the mounting holes to line up so I could bolt the new ones on.
     
  9. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,001

    Well New ones are tough like that so I wouldnt fret over that
     
  10. Fantastic

    Fantastic Senior Member
    Messages: 187

    My rams are ancient and I just did the flushing a month ago doing smith bros way... I have E-47 (1973-78) 7.6 ST Blade... I was able to move them by hand with ease... I took the female coupler of of my angle block and used that to flush/refill mine... Wonder what is causing yours to give you so much grief?
     
  11. Mister Plow

    Mister Plow Senior Member
    Messages: 139

    When I put new hoses on mine one time, i took off the coupler from the ram, and some small chunks of metal fell out. Thought that was strange, so I took the ram off and worked out about a dozen pieces. Turns out they were from the C-clip that prevents the ram from overextending out of the cylinder. They had been getting chewed up in there for who knows how long.

    Ram still worked fine, no scoring or damage, so I left it the way it is. The blade wont let the ram overextend, so I thought "screw it." Why bother fixing it. Still works great four years later. (Mine is only for homeowner use)

    Anyways, maybe a piece of something is dragging on yours. But I would think there would be some scoring or scratching going on. Are the rams still shiny?
     
  12. rswojo

    rswojo Member
    Messages: 50

    Pistons still shiny. Plow was always stored indoors. The new rams behaved the same as the old. I was thinking maybe this "stiffness" is normal for a single acting ram until I saw "Fantastic's" post.

    I have removed and replaced double acting rams on my Kubota backhoe and they compress and extend easily.
     
  13. LeperSmurf

    LeperSmurf Junior Member
    Messages: 1

    It most likely depends how much use the plow has had how easy the rams will move. The single acting rams have a different type of seal than the double acting.

    They are like a wedge where the more you tighten the nut the more pressure is placed on the packing thus making the ram harder to move. This is why new rams are typically very difficult to move by hand and old rams are usually easy to move.

    If you have old rams that are leaking you can sometimes get by with tightening the ram nuts which puts pressure back on the cylinder packings. This usually only works if your rams are in good shape and not dinged up.

    An easy way to flush out the rams if you are having trouble moving the blade by hand would be to remove the hose on one side of the ram and power the ram to that side with the pump. Put the hose back on and do the same to the other side by removing that hose and running the pump to to that side. You would want to zip tie a rag over the port so oil doesn't go squirting everywhere and make a mess.

    Repeat the process as many times until the oil looks clean that is coming out of the cylinders. Make sure the pump doesn't go dry so your not pumping air into the cylinders.
     
  14. fhafer

    fhafer Member
    Messages: 66

    How does the A-frame & sector swing with the rams removed? Is there a bind in your A-frame & sector?
     
  15. rswojo

    rswojo Member
    Messages: 50

    The old are tough. Maybe they are still "like new".:)
     
  16. rswojo

    rswojo Member
    Messages: 50

    The A-frame moved easily when I had the rams off to install the new ones.
     
  17. Whiffyspark

    Whiffyspark 2000 Club Member
    from SOMD
    Messages: 2,402

    Bingo. Check this
     
  18. fhafer

    fhafer Member
    Messages: 66

    Hanging off the ground with the ram hoses cross-connected I can swing my blade with one hand. Something isn't right with your set-up. How are the ram ends sliding into the A-frame and sector? Do they slide in easily or do you have to force them in? They should pivot freely without binding.

    With the rams installed on the A-frame and sector, reach down and give the rams a little twist...they should fit loosely and "rattle" just slightly. If you overtighten the ram bolts you can impart a bind at the ram ends. Just a thought.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  19. jasonv

    jasonv PlowSite.com Addict
    from kannada
    Messages: 1,114

    Yeah, I've always found that meyer cylinders are stiff after you let them sit for a while. Like all year. Almost impossible to move. Then they tend to loosen up as you use them during the year. Next year... all stiff again.
     
  20. rswojo

    rswojo Member
    Messages: 50

    That sounds like a logical explanation as I tried this in summer when the plow had been sitting for a few months.