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Toro Snow blower trouble

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Shady Brook, Feb 27, 2002.

  1. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 75

    Anyone have any suggestions why a Toro CCR2000 would be low on power, and be spitting oily residue out the muffler? She was great til this year, now she runs, but will not chuck the snow near as far as the other 2 CCR2000's I own. I cleaned the carb, and it was pretty dirty in the bowl. Sprayed the carb out pretty good, cleaned up the plug, and she still has little power. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Jay
     
  2. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011

    New needle and seat solved that problem on mine.
     
  3. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    Oil out the muffler is usually a sign of unburned fuel. This could be for a number of reasons, low compression is one. This would have to be tested with a compression gauge, it should read 120 to 150 after several pulls.

    Another cause could be a dirty carb as you suspected. If it has sat dormant for an extended period, the old gas/oil mix could have gummed up the ports. A quick cleaning won't remove these deposits, you may have to disassemble the carb and soak it. Remove all rubber gaskets and seals and then soak the carb overnight in laquer thinner. This will cut the varnish and you can blow it out after soaking. Be sure you can see daylight through all the little orifices in the casting.

    An improperly adjusted float can cause this problem too. If the float is adjusted too high the motor will smoke and have low power. You'll need to find the specs for your engine in a service manual.

    Also, verify that the choke plate is perpendicular to the carberator throat when the lever is in the off position. A partially closed choke would cause this condition.

    Finally, if your gas/oil mix isn't correct this can happen too, but I'm guessing you fill all your blowers from the same can.
     
  4. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 75

    You guys are studs, thanks for the quick responses.

    Yeah, I guess it could be any number of things. Will an automobile compression tester work on this blower? I was planning on getting one to check out my car, seems like a handy tool to have.

    I have not purchased any of that carb soak, but need to get some.

    All blowers were treated the same way, same time, and same gas. All were treated with fuel stabilizer, only one had the problem. I did goof with the choke on one, but not sure which. I am currious if I did not bend it to much! :)

    I wonder if I took off the choke handle, and shoved it all the way in, if I could see if that cured it?

    Thanks a bunch fellas
    Jay
     
  5. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    A better quallity compression gauge will come with adapters to fit just about any spark plug hole, worth the money. A good auto parts store, Snap-on, or Sears would be the source for this.
     
  6. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 75

    Pelican

    One bit of news, I did a compression test on the blower, and it topped out at about 110 psi. First pull around 60-70, and by the forth pull it was near 100-105. This seems a bit low. Is it low enough to exhibit a great disparity between this blower, and the others I will list? My others were jumping to 90, and 110 on the first pull, and topping out at between 120, and 125. Anyone have any comments on these readings, or further suggestions?

    Thanks
    Jay
     
  7. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Check the exhaust outlet before you go too far. A lot of two stroke stuff has a spark arrestor screen in the outlet and they are notorious for getting plugged with unburned oil and carbon. When they go bad the symptoms are very much like you have. Granted a spark arrestor on a snowblower makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine, but there might be one in there.
     
  8. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    Your compression is a bit on the low side and might be the cause of your problem. Is this blower older than the other two or have more hours? Once it drops to 90, it will become very hard to start, and eventually, not start at all.
     
  9. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 75

    They are all aproximately the same age, within 3 years. All are around 90's. All were homeowner owned prior to their abusive and rapid ageing stay with me. The others really throw it nice, but this one is way off. I wonder if there are not multiple problems with this beast. I just wondered if those 10 psi would make that much differenece. Also how slowly this one built up compression in relation to the other two. Any thoughts.

    Thanks so much
    Jay
     
  10. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    These are 2 stroke (cycle) engines. I know in the past from my brother owning several dozen 2 strokes, depending on the use, make and model, it is recommended that the piston and rings be changed as little as every 50 hours of use, to as much as 250 hours of use. You need to find out how many hours Toro recommends between ring changes.

    Another thought that comes to mind is that it is possible this particular low compression machine was owned by a homeowner who ran out of oil and ran the machine on diluted mix gas, or no oil mixed in at all for a few hours. This would wear the rings fast, and possibly score the cylinder walls.

    Possibly this one machine saw a lot more use by the original owner than the others?

    I did a piston and rings on an old Green Machine weed whacker. It was giving me trouble, and my brother suggested it. For the $60 (at the time) I figured sure. The replacement parts were JACOBSEN. Now John Deere owns the Green Machine name....
    I used that machine for 5 more years, often with a brush blade on it. It still runs strong, and it too is about a 1990 model.


    AND, it is also possible that the muffler/exhaust system is plugged up too (unrelated to the low compression). The two 2 strokes I owned over the years, both had the exhaust pipes plug up with carbon and oil. You might want to remove the muffler and check the exhast ports on all the machines. Carbon builds up in the ports, and restricts flow.

    One pipe was on a Honda Odessey FL250 I had. The exhaust pipe was about 1.25" dia. and when I removed it, the passageway was only big enough to get a pencil through it was so clogged.

    Common items replaced on 2 stroke engines include:

    Piston & Rings
    Piston Wrist Pin

    Less common but still quite often:

    Connecting Rod
    Reed Valve
    Exhaust parts (Silencer, Muffler)

    Again, this is just in general as far as 2 cycle engines go.

    As far as what Alan said, I could count on removing the muffler from my Echo hedge trimmer after about every 10 hours or so of use to clean the screen. To make it easier, I cut the plastic muffler guard off the trimmer. I made a couple of little brackets, and used 2 screws to hold the guard on.
    The easiest way to clean the screen I found is to hold the screen with a plier or vise grip, and heat it cherry red with a propane torch. Let it cool, and hit it with a small soft wire brush to remove the ash. Then reinstall it.

    I'm not familiar with the engine design of the Toros, but most 2 strokes are designed so that the cylinder can be removed easily. On most 2 strokes, changing the rings can be done by an experienced mechanic in less that a 1/2 hour, depending on how accessable the cylinder is. The rings themselves are less than $15 usually. When replacing rings it is also recommended that you scuff the cylinder walls. Just enough to take the glaze off, and allow the new rings to seat properly. If the cylinder is scored bad (deep scratches), then it may need to be bored out.

    Jay, with all the machines being 10 years old, changing rings at the recommended hours is cheap insurance to longer engine life.

    This goes for all 2 strokes, backpack blowers, trimmers, weed whackers, chainsaws, etc... Check the ring service interval set by the manufacturer for all your 2 strokes, you may be surprised how many are due for a ring change, or overdue.


    ~Chuck
     
  11. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 75

    Wow Chuck, super post!

    Thanks so much

    I did not realize that rings were considered a part of maintenance on these machines. I learn something all the time. I do not have manuals for any of these units, course it may not say in them anyway. I will have to see what I can find on the web from Toro. I will check out the muffler situation today and see what I can find. I was going to do some work on a truck, but seem to be encountering a hurricane right here in the midwest. It dropped 15 degrees in less then 10 minutes with lots o rain, now changing to snow. It was 55 an hour ago!

    Thanks again for all the info.

    Jay