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Tornado problems

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by rstan2010, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. rstan2010

    rstan2010 Member
    from Troy MI
    Messages: 96

    Have a western tornado that I installed from another truck today. The salter worked fine before we took it off the truck and now that I have it installed on the new truck I have power as soon as I plug the spreader in. The truck doesnt even need to be on and it runs as soon as its plugged in. The controller also has no control to turn it on or off or change the speed. Please let me know if anyone has any ideas.
     
  2. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Tornados are a multiplex system. That means there is a power module at the back, that actually turns the power up and down, and a remote in the cab that sends multiplex signals to that module via two small wires that run from the controller through the firewall, plug into the main cable and run all the way to the back where the module is. If the controller fails or the small communication wires are damaged you would get a blinking red light on the controller that you can decode by looking on the error code list. 1 blink = X, 2 blinks = Y etc. If the unit starts spinning up immediately when connected then probably the power module, in the back, is shorted or the wires have been moved around on the module lugs. If it worked on the old truck but doesn't now then something was damaged in the transplant. Did anyone take the cover off the power module? It's located in front of the spinner assembly on the driver's side of the conveyor frame. There are two stainless steel bolts holding a black plastic cover over it which is a pain to remove and replace.

    When you say there is no controller to turn it off or change the speed do you mean it doesn't work or it is not there? Was there a controller in the original truck?

    There should be a little black controller with two dials and two buttons, one dial for spinner speed and the other for conveyor speed. The two buttons light up when the truck ignition is on if it's installed correctly. Nothing should work unless the controller is connected.

    If there is no controller it may be that the seller jumped the wires on the power module and connected it directly to the battery with some sort of master switch or relay control just to get by.

    Have a look at this link to the tornado poster http://library.westernplows.com/westernplows/pdffiles/68277.01_050114_For_Web_11x17.pdf
    Item 80 is the cab controller and 63 is the power module.

    Here is another link to the parts PDF sheet, look on page 4 items 55 and 33.
    http://library.westernplows.com/pdfs/94205.02_021513.pdf
     
  3. rstan2010

    rstan2010 Member
    from Troy MI
    Messages: 96

    Thanks for the respond-

    I took the module cover off after I had it installed just to take a look around and everything seemed to be normal. All the connections were correct.

    I have the controller mounted in the truck, it came with the spreader. The controller is connected and can be powered on and off and the lights all come on but the controller does not turn the conveyor or spinner on nor can I change the speeds. The spreader always comes on if i plug it in even if the truck and controller is off. It is getting the power it needs directly from the battery.
     
  4. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Sounds like the power module is damaged if the wires are in the right place. Full battery power is connected directly to that module. Is it possible that the main cable was connected backwards for a moment? That could burn it up. Usually they don't let any power through at all but sounds like yours is shorted internally.
     
  5. rstan2010

    rstan2010 Member
    from Troy MI
    Messages: 96

    I'm hoping my dealer has the module in stock on Monday but ill keep poking at it tomorrow and see if i can find anything.
     
  6. rstan2010

    rstan2010 Member
    from Troy MI
    Messages: 96

    Also, my spinner doesn't kick on even when plugged in only the conveyor. Any ideas?
     
  7. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,673

    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
  8. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    More signs of power module. Replace that first and see if spinner works. Both spinner and conveyor motor are controlled through it.
     
  9. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Spinner is belt driven but he says it worked before transplant so it's probably electrical.
     
  10. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,673

    I am say the both run off the same motor. So if conveyor is running spinner should also unless something is wrong with belt or spinner itself.
     
  11. rstan2010

    rstan2010 Member
    from Troy MI
    Messages: 96

    The spinner runs off a different motor but the motor doesn't even kick on.
     
  12. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,673

    Is it the same spreader I posted the manual to? Because as far as I knew all the Tornado spreaders used one motor. Chain from motor to gear box for conveyor then v belt from conveyor gearbox to spinner.
     
  13. rstan2010

    rstan2010 Member
    from Troy MI
    Messages: 96

    No that is the 1st generation. I have the 2nd gen and has a separate motor.
     
  14. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,673

    Haven't had the pleasure of working on one of them yet. Well that would only leave module like mishnick said if everything hooked up correctly to the module.
     
  15. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,169

    If you run direct power from battery through the module you will fry it. That is why the warning sticker is beside the module, it must be run through the controller first, I have had dealers fry my module because they just jump the harness to test the motor without disconnecting the module. I See you checked my other thread, I'll let you know if it works..http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=160448&highlight=ElectrIc+spreaders
     
  16. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Before I built my test stand I used to take the output wires off the module and jump them to the hot wire coming from the battery, that is safe. Jumping from hot to the the output side is what fries them.

    Adding to the comment about the single motor for conveyor and spinner.... The third generation, coming out now, not only has a second motor for the spinner but the spinner motor now has an idler pulley and a larger diameter armature shaft. Second generation were a pain to set the belt tension and the motor shaft would shear off because they were too weak.

    Note: if you look at the link above from Mr.Markus you will notice that the last pic of the module shows only three lugs. That is from a gen 1 unit with a single motor running both conveyor and spinner. The newer gen 2 and 3 have four lugs: + and - from battery cable and the other two are the outputs, one for spinner + and one for conveyor +. I am surprised you were able to identify the MOSFET. I worked at an electronics fab shop for a few years and we always polished off the part numbers of all the chips and transistors so end users couldn't repair them and so competitors couldn't copy them. That was a stroke of good luck in this case.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
  17. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,169

    My new module for the 1st gen is 4 lug. Apparently, they stopped making the 3 lug for those of us that are still able to keep the 1st gen going. I just ignored the spinner lug and it works.
    The mosfet had everything I needed to find it printed right on it. I am still worried that there is damage from the arc inside the board that I can't see.
     
  18. mishnick

    mishnick 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,243

    Since the gen 2 module works for both 1 and 2 they stopped making the old single lug version. Just be sure to connect to the conveyor and not to the spinner, leave spinner empty.
     
  19. rstan2010

    rstan2010 Member
    from Troy MI
    Messages: 96

    Is there any way to test the module before I buy a new one?
     
  20. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,169

    I hooked mine old (refurbished one) up this morning...works.xysport

    I would use a test light on the studs...see what's getting power when.
    Does your controller light up at all, how many flashes?