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Top of Parking Deck- new to me

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by MatthewG, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. MatthewG

    MatthewG PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    Customer has a parking deck in which I need to service. It is concrete. It is not one smooth flat area, it has the typical ups and downs and has concrete breaks in it.

    The question is, since they do not want rock salt, what is the best product without breaking the bank? The area is 42,000 SQFT. I am unsure of spread rates for treated salt and calcium. I will have to use bagged prodcuts for my tailgate spreader.

    The entire area to be serviced is 84,000 sqft and is made up of 3 seperate parking lots plus the roof top parking deck.

    Im also considering bagged rock salt for the remainder of the areas, but its going to be alot of bags.

    Also this is in the city which is new to us, never did a parkign deck before.
     
  2. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    not to erupt the debate on salt on concrete, but a lot of times parkades don't want to be salted because they don't want the concrete to degredate, and compromise the structure. I know on the parkade we do, if we have to put salt down, we go and clean it a hour or so later. By clean up, I mean push the slush area where there was ice, off the side. But on this place, we only spot apply by hand.
     
  3. MatthewG

    MatthewG PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    Red is parking deck
    Pink is all other areas

    What do you think 2 pickups?
    1 Pickup 1 Skid with 8 foot box?

    Like I said its in the city, not really close to anything else I have. They did it themselves last year, but paid too much overtime so they want to outsource

    MC.jpg
     
  4. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    1.5- 2 hours with a truck and a skid, about the same hours (maybe a bit more) for two trucks.
     
  5. bonerigo.1

    bonerigo.1 Junior Member
    Messages: 23

    i did a junky one for years. They had a rubber strip down the center that if we hit we'd be in big trouble. Cost like 50k to install. i watched the entire building corrode for about 5 yrs. we were limited to the bagged stuff they provided which was pretty much expensive kitty litter. Be prepared for snow to accumulate quick and often. With cold air underneath any snow will build up. Also if u wait (like i did) till the end of the storm there will be large drifts from wind and double the amount that you got at street level.
     
  6. Kramer

    Kramer Senior Member
    Messages: 386

    If you haven't done a parking garage in the past, you should probably take a look at the snow business mag from a few issues ago. They had a great article in there about a collapse situation due to snow load. Are you going to remove the snow from the top level or pile it in one area? I b elieve a lot of people want the snow removed. If you don't please consider the liability.
     
  7. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985



    There is a Gentleman on here named TCLA that has a Vast Knowledge on parking decks and what to use....You might want to PM him and pick his Brain....



    What doe's the contract specify (if any) as to what type of ice melter to use....I know that alot of Parking decks do Not want any salt on them.....Also, Most would prefer a rubber or urethane cutting edges on the Plows
     
  8. gd8boltman

    gd8boltman Senior Member
    Messages: 326

    Use liquid,

    two skid loaders with tracks, with a Kage or containment boxes, leave your snow buckets on site or near to remove snow from decks. Best to use rubber or urethane edge. Be wise bidding, they can take alot longer than you think when and if the wind gets whipping. If they want it removed from decks, prepare to be there often with the equipment to get it done. Another tip: take LOTS of preseason photos of surface, corners, and joints in the structure. I think trucks are not very effective for parking ramps, skid loaders are much more efficient. My guess, 2 skid loaders= 1.5 hrs. avg snowfalls tops. If there are curb stops everywhere, add a little time and make sure you know if they want the snow between curb stops and walls removed as well.

    Good Luck!
     
  9. nor'easter1

    nor'easter1 Senior Member
    Messages: 140

    I have a parking deck similar to the one you describe. These is a lot of work that goes into trying to keep these things snow and ice safe. In terms of material I applied to the top of the garage I went with potassium Acetate which is a liquid solution. I bought it in 55 gallon drums and would pre treat as well as post treat with it. As other have stated any precip under 32-34 degrees will start sticking to the concrete. I found on my deck that this potassium would be good for a dusting to and inch or so. I spread it using a lawn tractor with 20 gallon spray boom on the back. A few other notes in the fall check all of the drains on the roof for debris and make sure they are clear if they are'nt you will have a skating rink nightmare on your hands. Second take pre-season pics of any and all cracks miss colored concrete as in rust and anyhting you can do to show prior abuse. These garages really don't stand up well cosmetically for snow and ice control measures so protect yourself.
     
  10. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    Why would you put 2 skids at one location that isn't even big enough for one? There is only 2 acres of total pavement.
     
  11. cphalen

    cphalen Junior Member
    Messages: 3

    for that garage i would use a ski steer with plow attachment and rubber blade. on all our garages we have specs that require us to use calcium which we apply with a pick up truck with little spreader
     
  12. Plow man Foster

    Plow man Foster PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,153

    No offense it sounds like he has more equip. then he knows what to do with! UNLESS there is part of the story that we dont know about....

    We do one in detroit and have one skid and one Kodiak on there. When plowing. When we Come back after the storm(and everything has calmed down) to haul the snow off, We bring more equip.

    Also we use strictly Brine on it. Maybe a Mix (Rock and Brine(liquid) if its REALLLYYYY bad. But thats a pain because i have to send my site manager out to meet the landlord...and they have to agree upon our decision.
    But we usually just spray Liquid.
     
  13. MatthewG

    MatthewG PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,390

    The owners of the property have always done this location themselves. However, they want to control costs, too much overtime paid last year, plus they own trucks, skids, loaders etc. that they want to sell. To free up cash.

    I met with both top guys, they know their stuff, and they know the lots. Last year on the parking deck they stated "we use treated salt"

    Im really asking what is appropriate for the deck, which some have answered. No salt as acknowledged by the guys I met with, just didn't know if I needed calcium or maybe a magic salt type of product.

    This a 24-7 facility, it is tight, all lots are gated, that's why I figured a skidsteer would do good especially for moving snow.

    Last, they keep a skidsteer on site under the parking garage, they will be removing the snow from the rooftop and they are doing all the sidewalks for the whole block
     
  14. ryde307

    ryde307 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,143

    Use a poly blade or rubber. Watch out for the expansion joints. They are extremly expensive if you damage one and if you are lucky enough to not damage it but still catch your edge in it, it will hurt.

    As for product most dont want salt because of the damge to the structure. There is alot of metal in the construction and no easy fix if any, once it starts to go. We do have one that they dont care and it gets salt. The others we have done get calcium. They purchased and we spread to protect costs. It came in 2000 lb bags on a pallet.
     
  15. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    I guess it depends on how you look at the property. I think a 1/2 hour at each small lot, and then allowing a hour for both machines in the upper deck of that parkade isn't unreasonable. Those parkades are blown in 2-3 feet sometimes, lots of pony walls and misc obstacles, you spend a lot of time moving the snow to the one designated area. I can't speak for the original poster, but all the ones we do are a PITA and take way more time then a lot that is a open push
     
  16. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    parking garage

    Sorry to see you get sucked into this;
    you would think by now that they would
    have installed a good sheet metal roof
    on these garages by now due to the
    weather conditions.

    Have you considered the smallest
    snow melter to reduce your dependence
    on deiciers?

    You could tow the snow melter to the roof
    when needed and use it in the lower parking
    lots later.


    I have always found it ironic/idiotic that
    parking garages designed to be used in
    more temperate climates are used in the
    northeast with outroofs.

    The issue is always one of expense as a
    roof over a top floor parking garage deck
    would solve the problem job and the owners
    life that much easier over the life of the
    parking garage.

    In our case the municipality has been
    repairing and rebuilding the original parking
    garage that was constructed in the early 1970's
    with continuous issue due to salt damage and
    icing in the drains.


    The car wash we owned had heated floors and all the
    years we operated it we never had issues with with ice
    and snow build ups.

    You might just have a forever client for the lower lots
    if you suggest installing hot antifreeze heat on the parking
    deck using a thick layer of asphault which is done
    in many instances as you will need zero deicing chemicals
    and simply need to plow and collect the snow or place it near
    an area that is designated for snow storage and melting
    used to melt the snow dumped there as it has a higher
    per square inch coverage of heated floor to melt the snow and ice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  17. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,699

    A lot of great answers here, and then there's......oh never mind.

    If they don't want any salt on it (which is the proper directive) don't even consider using brine. It's more corrosive than salt and doesn't always work. A truck or skid steer with a v-blade (or wide out) will work best for you. Rubber or poly edge is a must...we prefer poly. Potassium acetate, NAAC, Peak PA, or pure CC (Peladow) are your top choices. Understand the application rates and the cost for each. Quantity of purchase will determine your costs. That's not a large area, you can easily use a bagged product (50 or 55lb bags) with a broadcast spreader. We do one parking deck where they want us to use bulk salt because all they care about is cost. We know it's wrong but like I said they don't care so we honor their request.

    It will be the first thing that you will have to service as there is no ground temperature benefit. It will also be the only thing that will need servicing on many occasions. The expansion joints will cost you hard if you damage them.
     
  18. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,699

    Oops, I forgot to thank Mr. Matson for his kind words. Thank you sir.
     
  19. leon

    leon Senior Member
    Messages: 872

    parking garage

    If you are unhappy with my posting-oh well,
    It all comes down to cost and design and
    the fact that these types of garages are
    money pits for the owners whether they
    are private or municipalities.

    You can thank the architects that do not
    implement the design of a heated deck to
    solve the problem of ice and snow from
    November 1st to April 15th based on the
    deck temperature and solve seasonal
    issues the first time and every time,
    oh well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  20. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    He said it wasn't near any of his other work so I'm not sure why you'd tie up 2 skids for the night at a property that small. That job isn't going to pay enough for one let alone 2 skids from what the OP has stated.