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This is what came down the pipe from USM lol

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Ramairfreak98ss, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    Ive been wondering when they'd call to bid on any of the local walmarts, sams clubs or home depots...

    They finally call for a few different ones, but only emailed over info a few days after they intially call.

    for a ~550k sq ft lot with back loading areas and side auxillary lot they offered us , please dont fall out of your chairs, make sure your sitting down .....



    $6,000 for the season! They pay monthly, which you still have to INVOICE them the following.
    $1,000 per month from Dec 1st to May 1st, so youll receive your 45 day payments from Jan 15th avg. to June 15th for the season.

    Its like a penny per sq ft!

    After the final site walk through, if theres a few curbs that are damaged or anything of the nature, thats like taking a 25% hit on your total for the site for the season for a couple "minor" issues.

    They wanted us to get back to them within 24hrs, its not even worth the effort of the phone call. This property should be approximately 30k+ per season just by my rough estimates

    Think of it this way, for all who may have not done something of this size in the past.


    1k monthly DOES NOT even cover the $1400 monthly skid steer rental they "require" to be on site.

    You still have to provide your push box or "rent one" lol

    You could apply over 1k in salt and calcium EASY for at least 4 of the 6 months of payment

    You'd spend roughly 50 man hours a 4-8" storm or more. Our lowest paid employees on snow removal are at $15 an hour, highest are $30... you lost money just in labor there as well.

    Hell if it DIDNT snow, youd loose money just having your trucks dedicated to the site :realmad:

    They require at minimum two plow trucks....

    Thats
    2 truck operators
    2 snow blower operators
    1-2 minimum shovelers, helpers
    1 skid operator

    6-7 employees onsite per snowfall for 1k MONTHLY! a joke is a severe understatement.

    We could get 1k per 2" PUSH on a site like this plus salt, so ONE 2" storm with salt would be closer to $1400, for 1k a month i couldnt even salt the place.

    I couldnt even push just the opening lanes just to make a path to the store and salt for that price.

    I wont even look at the 7 documents they'll mail us for the walfarts. I cant wait to see who they get with ONE pickup to do this site. There is not a single contractor in the state of NJ that would own a skid "since you cant rent one for this job financially" , with two trucks that would consider this place for that price.

    USM also wants another BIG piece of equipment onsite at any given time within a 1hr notice... sorry but all our BIG equipment is designated out ahead of time where it needs to be. Im not a millionaire with a 150k Deere 20,000lb loader just sitting in my driveway waiting for usm to call to TELL me i need to have it transported in a snowstorm to the local home cheapo "all while getting paid a flat $1k monthly" :gunsfiring:

    Before i saw their prices on the last sheet, i was going to give them prices as such

    2-4" $1,050
    4-6" $1,325

    Salt lot $465
    Calcium sidewalks $185
    Heavy salt/calcium mix "below 15deg" $125

    No price for over 6" since it would never accumulate that high during a storm.

    Tractor or extra skid with bucket for stacking, moving, relocating $215.00hr, 2hr minimum.

    a 12" storm, which is easy once or twice a year in nj would look lik this.

    $1,050 x 4-7 pushes "depending on conditions of course"
    $465+$185 2-3 times "during before or immediately after the storm commences"


    $1300-1950 for salting service
    $4,200-$7,350 for plowing services

    A total of $9,300 for a 12" more major storm far exceeds their 6k for the season huh!
    In a 12" storm, we'd have probably 1 v plow truck there, 1 10' box skid or tractor and 3-4 helpers doing everything else or rotating doing some plowing etc. from the time the storm starts until it stops and the lot is all cleaned up. We always pre salt too so take that off of every time there's any icing conditions.

    Maybe its just me, but i always like a lot of the main parking spots to be clear even in a storm and the lot perfect when its finished and we have time to catch up at the end. I saw a lowes done last year in NJ, and couldnt believe how terrible it was done. Our similar sized property which i thought was "acceptable" looked like a palace ice kingdom entrance compared to the local lowes which had 2' tall snow chunks laying everywhere like a minefield, small piles everywhere, probably because no push box was used or too little of a truck and/or plow combo. Ice was everywhere and you almost couldnt park close to any curbs since the snow wasnt cleared closely anywhere. Now i understand why at those price from the major snow companies
     
  2. timberseal

    timberseal Senior Member
    from 46385
    Messages: 247

    I would call them on it if for nothing else for some entertainment value :) Nothing like kicking the hornets nest a time or two!
     
  3. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    fast response! Well i did consider calling the girl back up and asking some basic questions such as.

    1. Do you provide us with the labor for the contract?
    2. Does usm provide the two minimum plow trucks, spreaders, plows and big equipment?
    if so... what date is it transported to the site and remove? Are there any extra charges or percentage fees for this transportation?
    3. Does usm drop ship enough salt supplies to the site for the season? Is there an authorized usm representative available 24/7 to operate the skid steer with a bucket to load the trucks with salt within a 1hr notice?
    4. As far as fuel goes, does usm supply diesel for the trucks and skid onsite or does our company have to pay for that up front to then be reimbursed by usm via invoice at a later date?
    if so... what is the payment terms for repayment of fuel bills? 45 days? which it the usm dictionary is,

    at 45 days we may review your invoicing submitted or phone system codes from 1.5 months prior, if we feel we have the need to pay out, we will then send the final ok to our compliance department in which a young girl will call claiming your suddenly "not in compliance" but since usm may possibly already be 10-20 days late on this invoice, its IMPERATIVE for you to call us back to rectify this situation "so that you can be paid!".

    Once you fax or email your insurance documentation or any usm forms over for the 18th time of the season "since we call 4x a month for this", we may finally snail mail you out a check that you will receive on average of 60-70 days past the date of service.

    sorry this all is too much for me to take in :yow!::drinkup:wesport
     
  4. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    and if you add up two plow trucks, two spreaders, two plows, a box and a skid or tractor.


    NOTHING LIKE DEDICATING TO SEND OUT 100-150K IN EQUIPMENT TO MAKE 6K!

    oh and 5-8k in salt/calcium supplies too :laughing:
     
  5. Burkartsplow

    Burkartsplow PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,245

    I have 2 acre lots that I make 6K off of just for plowing a season. We usually get more snow then you, but that is crazy....
     
  6. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,855

    OK, I'm with you on most of this, but 50 hours on a 12 acre job for 4-8" of snow?

    Are you serious?
     
  7. Scott's

    Scott's Senior Member
    Messages: 416

    That would be the same as doing a $10.00 driveway now wouldnt it?
     
  8. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    i have to agree with mark, 50 hrs 4-8inch snowfall seems a little far fetched, i don't know the circumstances with which you came to that, but a 4-8 inch snow storm is only going to have you on site 2-4 times, i am figuring about 6-8 hrs a plow plus another couple of hours hand work/detailing/sanding, so figuring a worst case scenario 40hrs, but even that seems a little high, all your numbers add up though, so i am thinking you just misjudged the 50hrs
     
  9. bigalsland22202

    bigalsland22202 Junior Member
    Messages: 1

    What he was trying to say is total man hours not 50 hours consecutively for a 4-8 inch storm. If you have 6-7 guys in there for 7 hours you are at 49 man hours very quickly.
     
  10. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,855

    I know what he was saying. 6-7 guys in a lot that size are going to be running into each other. You would need MP's to direct the equipment. And a good body shop once winter is over.

    Either way, it doesn't matter, 50 hours for 4-8 inches on 12 acres is NOT a productive use of manpower or equipment.

    With heavy equipment--loaders and pushers--you don't start losing efficiency until about 8" of snow. You should have little to no problem clearing 2-3 acres per hour with a loader\push box up to that amount of snow.
     
  11. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    i get that bigalsland, (by the way welcome to plowsite) , first and foremost, i reitererate, i haven't a clue of the circumstances of this lot, i don't know the layout or how many walks, etc, but what mark and i are saying is on a 12 acre lot with lets say two trucks, and lets say 3-4 inches of snow on it, i would hazard a guess (and this is just a guess, because i use heavy iron for my lots) but approximately 4-5 hours for the trucks, make that 3 hrs if a skid is also working, and sidewalks 4 guys (2 with shovels 2 with blowers, another 2 hrs, so a total of 17 hrs total, (and i think i am being generous) and then he would have to plow 3 times per snow fall, to get his 50+hrs(i also haven't factored salt being that i know nothing of the pricing, we dont use salt in alberta), which i think is a little aggresive, i am guessing on a 8 inch snow fall 2 plowings are enough
     
  12. sparky8370

    sparky8370 Senior Member
    Messages: 234

    You guys should all be sending USM your prices so that they get the hint. I know if I kept trying to get people to do jobs at $1,000 and I kept getting bids for $5000, eventually I would go up with my offerings.
     
  13. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    sorry, i don't do USM properties up here, and therefore, i am keeping my nose out of any conversation concerning USM beyond the scope of the contractors themselves......translation, some told me to screw off because i don't do USM contracts where i am at and that my opininon amounts to sh!t, but i well give advice to contractors concerning their pricing, or make comments/discussion around contract pricing, i just keep away from any more comments about USM directly. but i do concure with you comment,
     
  14. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    yeah i just threw 50 out there, more like 30-40 though even for us.

    Its not like were working slow. but assume say the storm drags on for a 12hr span...

    skid busy 12hrs
    plow truck 4-5hrs
    2-3 laborers from start to finish or estimated 10hrs worth,

    thats still 36-46 man hours.. it adds up fast compounded with employees.

    For myself only, well heck i could have me and one other employee on site, it would look terrible and take forever to finish even after the 8" storm is over but we could do it with two guys in 15hrs each so thats 30 :p lol
     
  15. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    exactly, and not 7 trucks, 7 employees...
     
  16. chaos270

    chaos270 Junior Member
    from CT
    Messages: 22

    They just called 5 minutes ago, gonna call back for the entertainment see what they offer!
     
  17. Mark Witcher

    Mark Witcher Senior Member
    Messages: 604

    The USM specs also specify ZERO snow or ice on the lot at all times. And they require you to come and apply deicer at their discretion. The specs I got called for Calcium , no salt or sand.
     
  18. 4700dan

    4700dan Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 329

    I'm telling you guys that have signed with USM but think of this, they are only doing this contract with WalMart to make money at every contractors expense and the problem is some dumba@@ will sign but all of you should read the entire contract out of that $1000.00 a month they also want you to carry 5million in insurance too. If I am not going to make no money I will stay home and sleep in my warm bed like USM will be doing while they are laughing at the contractors.
     
  19. lawn king

    lawn king PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,070

    Dont forget the 7% rebate that goes back to usm or the additional 20% reduction in payment should your area receive less than annual average snowfall amounts! These people are making millions by hammering contractors. Its really sickening!
     
  20. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    yeah, so of course your first worry is..

    your bid too close for comfort.. what happens if they call for salt/calcium 10 in the course of 4 days when its cold and the lot is freezing... hey it can happen, at least i want to be happy about it and making a few bucks each time.