1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

THIS is an example of a BAD National contract- Ferrandino

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Ramairfreak98ss, Nov 13, 2014.

  1. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    Most find these humorous... you can't even revise this without totally having it re-written...

    I'll highlight what should be read into ...and the real BS parts.

    This is a Ferrandino & Sons contract... all are very very similar, i'm only listing one here.

    Public Storage Snow Removal Scope of Work
    Public Storage: Snow Removal Scope of Work 2014 – 2015
    Service Agreement
     Service Requirements for Public Storage locations
    You shall provide snow and ice control services for snow accumulation in excess of two
    (2.0) inches, and every two (2.0) inches thereafter. Additionally, you shall provide ice control
    and de-icing services during and following any ice storm (regardless of total accumulation), or any
    scenario that results in ice formation or any otherwise slippery conditions on Public Storage’s
    property.

    Keep this in mind for a minute until we get to the next phase of discussing how they're going to limit your plowing and salting!



    You shall comply with local ordinances including those governing fire lane accessibility,
    overnight noise, city sidewalks, and ingress/egress. If snow accumulates overnight, plowing shall
    be completed by 7:00 am the following morning.
    Later they state, they will ONLY pay you for ONE overnight service "between 6pm -7am". 13 hours.


    Public Storage’s objective is bare pavement on all surfaces. You are required to provide
    services to achieve this objective during or following either a Snow or Ice Storm. You shall
    monitor conditions at your contracted location(s) to determine if services are required.
    Bare pavement, later they discuss only two total de-ice apps in a 24hr span... including storms and when you're snow powing.



     Schedule
     Contractor (your company) will perform all required work as stated herein for a period beginning
    th
    the date of this signed Agreement and ending on June 30 2015.
    Check your contracts... NEVER sign one dated prior to the date of signing, its common for them to forward you printed dated docs, to sign starting say November 1st but its now 11/13/14... Why would a snow contract END in almost July? Never sign where you may be held accountable "liable" at ALL for months it does not ever snow. in NJ April 15th is the very latest date.


    Contractor will provide to Ferrandino & Son, Inc. an invoice no later than seven (7) days after the
    end of each snow event.
    YES you need to invoice them, within 7 days of date of service, AND only one invoice per site, pity for those with multiple sites signed with them, get ready for hundreds or thousands of individual invoices, they can then jam you up with 6 months after they're due with confusion dealing with payments not made. They typically also don't pay full invoices, yeah you understand now.


    Standard location public “Gate Hours”
    o 6:00am -8:00pm Monday-Sunday
    But you need it cleared by 7am and no more than ONE overnight service after 8pm, yet most locations close for the day at 5pm or 6pm and they're strict.


     Snow Clearing – Parking Lots
     Snowplowing services shall begin when snow accumulation reaches two (2.0) inches in depth,
    and every two (2.0) inches thereafter unless authorized by Ferrandino & Son. Snow is to
    be removed from all driveways and parking areas from face of the curb to face of the curb,
    including the curb faces showing. All sidewalks will be cleared by contractor prior to
    location opening.
     Contractor shall only apply non harmful ice melting materials on all areas. Public Storage’s goal is
    to ensure safe and dry conditions as best as possible for customer and employee safety.
     Contractor shall continue to service all locations each time the depth of the snow reaches two
    (2.0) inches and every two (2.0) inches thereafter. At the end of any event, contractor should
    ensure all areas are clear of snow. Contractor shall return after hours if necessary to complete
    this final clean up, or when parking lot is not full of vehicles.
    Contractor shall attempt to clear out any accumulating snow from the overnight by 7:00 am,
    where applicable.
    Why not just plow overnight to keep sites clean instead of jamming one self up just prior to 7am?

    If snow is continuing to fall during opening hours, contractor will continue to
    return every two (2.0) inches as necessary to maintain specifications.
    If snow accumulation above two (2.0) inches occurs overnight contractor shall perform at least 1
    overnight service to meet the7:00 am expectation.
    Here it contradicts their prior message in that you shall perform at LEAST, not limited to ONE overnight service... which is it?

    Contractor is only allowed one (1) billable
    service throughout overnight hours.
    Oh look, there it is again, so basically you should keep plowing but you are only allowed to bill them ONE service... and yes a service overnight is salting or plowing, but not both and don't salt then plow separately, thats two services.


    If excessive overnight snow is expected contractor
    must receive written approval from Ferrandino & Son, Inc. for multiple billable services.
    Don't know about your area of the US, but NJ gets a lot of snow overnight, excessive yes it is. FYI, good luck ever getting approval for additional plows overnight. Those approvals, if ever approved, come days later, you'll never gain an approval prior or overnight, so this whole clause is meaningless.


     If snow accumulates to a depth which prevents contractor from providing enough areas for snow
    storage and parking, contractor shall provide Ferrandino & Son a lump sum quote to remove and
    haul the snow away.
    This is a joke. You will ALWAYS have accumulation in any descent storm and not have anywhere to put it... those lump sum quotes are haggled down multiple times and days later they may finally approve about 10% of those requests, even if the request comes from the site manager themselves.... .Explain to me that one, how they stand to make extra billable sales, and deny the work order?



    Before and After photos will be required to confirm completion of work
    and to receive payment.
    Take millions of photos, they randomly come back months later AFTER approval for this work, and claim they can't see the store number or storefront in the photos, send us more photos from months prior to verify the photos before and after were of the same site.... really?


    Contractor will not proceed with any hauling work unless written
    approval is received from Ferrandino & Son, Inc. If work is performed without approval from
    Ferrandino & Son, Inc., contractor risks forfeiture of payment.
    HAHAHAHA forfeiture of payment, i love it. If you work for these guys, you're already risking forfeiture of all of your payment!!!


     All snow clearing operations performed during the location operating hours shall be conducted in
    a manner that does not impact location operations or customer safety.


    Public Storage Snow Removal Scope of Work
     Contractor may be contacted by a Ferrandino & Son to perform services prior to the 2.0 inch
    trigger.
     Service Provider will pile snow in designated and predetermined areas. Snow shall be piled in
    wind rows or off edges of pavement. The ideal location for snow accumulations will be
    determined with each location or District Manager during pre-season walkthrough. No snow is to
    be pushed onto gates, doors or fences.
    I'm sorry, but these are storage facilities... they have NO location to put snow.. NONE. Many sites are storage unit doors at every side, corner, nook and cranny an engineer could possibly place them. They frequently will call claiming you should return "without additional payment" to clear sites free of snow so they can access areas....even though you need to put the snow somewhere....



     The staging and stacking of snow should reduce no more than 15% of the parking spaces
    designated for Public Storage customers and employees. Any snow events which will cause
    more than 15% of the parking spaces to be used, contractor should alert Ferrandino & Son, Inc.
    The contractor will provide a quote to and receive written approval from Ferrandino & Son, Inc.
    This approval is required to remove currently stacked snow to ensure uninterrupted business
    Yeah, alert them all you desire, they won't care. Submit all your bids and requests for stacking, moving, removal or hauling, you'll waste your time.


    Snow storage areas and requirements will vary per location. Again, refer to the pre-
    season walkthrough documents for clarification of storage areas to be used.
     General areas of responsibility: all entrances and exit driveways, parking lot, loading docks, and
    perimeter sidewalks.
    All snow must be removed within 12-18” from all buildings. This is impossible with more than 2-3" of snow, especially if snow from the last storm or all season is still sitting there.. I have to laugh extra for this one.

     All man doors need to be shoveled to maintain open and closed clearance.
     Shoveling of storage doors/roll-up doors is not required.
    Additional areas to be accessible and kept clear of snow and ice during every service:
    Entrance and exit ways, fire hydrants, storm drains, trash dumpster access, loading
    docks, fire lanes, crosswalks, handicap ramps, store sign areas.

    Too much... there is no where to put snow, shovel all you want, the very next push, its all covered again, and guess where fire hydrants and entry doors are? in corners where your plow leaves the most snow trying to go around corners for the next pass...

     Non-harmful ice melting de-icing products will be used on drive and parking areas. (No sand
    in any areas). Any sand applied during the season will be cleared at the vendors’ expense.
     When snow is expected to fall throughout the day, periodic inspections of properties will be made
    of the parking area and all entrances and exits to ensure that they remain passable and plowed
    as required.
     To prevent damage to the Public Storage properties at the beginning of the snow season,
    Contractor will use delineation markers to mark any objects such as hydrants, utility meters,
    lights, ditches and plant material as required. The Contractor and its staff will also become
    familiar with the location of entrances and parking areas so that no areas are missed when
    covered with snow. This should be done during the pre-season walk through.
    Care will be taken not to pile snow that would allow water to back up into the lot. Drainage flows
    should be discussed with the personnel prior to the season so they are kept clear during the
    season.
    If snow is not removed, it WILL cover every drain they have, all drains if not on the sides, are in the middle where you've plowed, and runoff ices up on them for weeks after major storms... think about a tilta whirl but all ice...


     Snow Clearing – Access Gates & Snow Gates
     Access and snow gates are required to be free of all existing snow, to allow the gate to properly
    open and close with no restriction. Snow shoveling or extra deicing may be required to achieve
    this requirement, any additional time and/or material will be considered at part of the service and
    not billed separately.
     At no point should snow be piled anywhere within close proximity to the gate areas in which snow
    would hamper gate function or customer access.
    This is hilarious too. There is no room to push the snow.. how many times have i said that? You plow straight, you come to a gate, sometimes 2-3 gates per site, you get out, open the gate, continue pushing through, leaving a pile or pushing through straight, will leave a lump of a pile and some gates can't shut.. need to get out and start hand shoveling until your next push past it again.


     Under no circumstance should snow be piled on or against any gate or fence.
     Upon award, contactor will receive an access code for entering the property. If at any
    point the access code/gate is not functioning, contactor must contact Ferrandino & Son
    immediately.
     If a snow gate is present on location contractor is responsible for providing a lock box for
    emergency access in and out of the snow gate.


    Public Storage Snow Removal Scope of Work
     Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Chloride, or a comparable de-icing product will be used to prevent
    icing on sidewalk areas. NO SODIUM CHLORIDE, ROCK SALT OR SAND MAY BE USED ON
    SIDEWALKS.
    There are a maximum of two (2) billable deicing servicing per 24 hours. If additional
    deicing is needed beyond that approval must be given in writing by a Ferrandino and Son
    representative.
    I LOVE how they bury this under "sidewalks" section, not deice procedures or billing.. if you pre-salt, which they want done, and then you get a 10" snow storm, plowing and salting every 2" as per spec, say for 5 total times, and then salt that night or after storm, thats 7 de-icings total in a 24hr period, you will only be paid for two of those. Talk about ways to lose a lot of money, this is one. Worse yet, you'll perform these 7 apps in December and be told in July or August the following year that those services were denied!


     Sidewalks are to be shoveled and cleared during every snow removal service prior to location
    opening. Special attention should be paid towards handicap areas and ramps.
     City Sidewalks are to be included during snow shoveling services for specific locations. If your
    location(s) require City Sidewalk shoveling, this will be determined during your pre-season walk
    through.
     Non-harmful ice melting de-icing products will be used on all sidewalks. (No salt in any
    areas)
     Specifics for Ice and/or Ice Storms
     As required or once requested by Ferrandino & Son, Inc or the Public Storage Manager,
    application of ice melting agent should commence before or immediately after the end of an ice
    event to ensure adequate melting time for safety.
    There are a maximum of two (2) billable deicing servicing per 24 hours. If additional deicing is
    needed beyond that approval must be given in writing by a Ferrandino and Son representative.
    There is is again, i'll give you $20 if you ever get an approval overnight for additional work, any kind of work for that matter.


     Periodic inspection of treated areas will be done to ensure melting is progressing. Contractor is
    responsible to ensure that slip-free conditions are maintained as best as possible.
     Additional Services
     The following work must have prior written approval by Ferrandino & Son, Inc.
    Loading into a truck and hauling snow off site. Such off-site snow removal services are at extra
    cost. Snow may only be dumped off-site in locations approved by the appropriate governmental
    authority. Inform your Ferrandino & Son Account Manager of hauling distance upon request.
    Approved by Ferrandino & Son, Inc. only.
    Their contracts do NOT have any stated amount for loader work, hauling, stacking, removal etc. Its simply not part of the bid or contract... they'll offer to pay you $120 an hour or LESS, to haul snow, yes that includes transportation of equipment, truck rate and machine operator rate, not billable to each individual truck or equipment.... and you're locked into say 2hrs of work prior, so if it takes 3hrs, you need to stop working, and the site manager will then complain you did a half a$$ job, understood.



     Before and after photos will be required to confirm completion of the work and ensure payment.
     Response Time
     Contractor will begin service when snow reaches two (2.0) inches or as requested. Once two
    (2.0) inches of snow has accumulated, you are to begin services. You DO NOT need prior
    authorization from Ferrandino & Son, Inc., or Public Storage. You are expected to begin
    services once two (2.0) inches has accumulated.
     Upon any specific service request, contractor will respond within one (1) hour.
     Contractor will provide a dedicated phone number to enable Ferrandino & Son, Inc., to contact
    them 24/7 throughout the snow season.
     Snow Event Reporting & Service Expectations
     Prior to all snow events accurate reporting of services performed, ETA’s for future services as
    well as the current conditions of each assigned property is required prior to 6am.
     To expedite this reporting every service provider is required to utilize the Ferrandino & Son
    Interactive Voice Response system (IVR) for every service rendered. Use of the IVR system is
    to be real time upon completion of every service performed.
    Yes you need to call them for an IVR # after EVERY service you perform for them, not 10m later, not an hour later. No ivr or missing #s, no payment, good as dirt.



    Public Storage Snow Removal Scope of Work
     Prior to the start of the season, Contractor shall conduct a walk-through of the facility with the
    Public Storage Manager (or other designated employee), documenting, via pictures and reports,
    any pre-existing damage. Upon completion of the snow season, a post-season walk-through will
    be conducted with the Manager identifying any new damage. All newly identified damage and/or
    repairs need to be made within 30 days and in conjunction with any specific needs or
    requirements of Public Storage. The snow removal contractor will be obligated to repair or
    correct any damaged areas which appeared during the plowing season that were not
    documented during the pre-season walk through as existing damage
     ALL DAMAGE MUST BE NOTATED. To include, but not limited to: curbs, planters, signs, light
    poles, asphalt, landscaping and turf areas, irrigation lines, and sprinkler heads. If damage is
    present, then you must take the appropriate measures to indicate that this is pre existing damage.
    This can be done by notating with digital photographs.
     To prevent damage to the Public Storage properties at the beginning of the snow season,
    Contractor will use delineation markers to mark any objects such as hydrants, utility meters,
    lights, ditches and plant material as required. The Contractor and its staff will also become
    familiar with the location of entrances and parking areas so that no areas are missed when
    covered with snow. This should be done during the pre-season walk through. Stacking/Snow
    Storage areas- it is to be determined where snow will be stacked and stored on site in a manner
    that will maximize available parking and avoid any guest distractions or safety issues.
     You will be responsible for repairing any damages on site that occurred during the season. Your
    final payment will not be released until all damage repairs have been made and confirmed
    completed with a Public Storage manager.
     Invoicing Procedures
     Snow plowing is to be billed after each storm event and invoices should be sent no later than 7
    days after each snow event.
     Rate Adjustment for Failed or Missed Services - if you fail to provide service or if you perform an
    unsatisfactory service as declared by Public Storage, and your services are not terminated, then
    the cost of correcting the failed or missed service will be deducted from your rate.
     Invoicing Requirements
     All invoices for services, along with accompanying signed work orders shall be emailed directly to
    Ferrandino & Son account team or emailed to:

    pscontractor@ferrandinoandson.com
     Fax to (631) 465-4831
     No payment will be made to you until all contractual documents that Ferrandino & Son, Inc.
    require have been submitted. These documents include, but are not limited to: signed
    specifications, liability insurance documents, signed pricing agreement, etc.
     If you provide services and have not signed the Services Agreement, you agree to be bound to all
    of these terms and conditions of the Services Agreement.
     Failure to comply with any of these items could result in forfeiture of payment.
     Classifications for invoices:
    o Push and Salt – Snow removal services and Deicing Service (Maximum of 2 De-Icing
    Services per day)
    o Push Only (Salting scheduled/routed at another time) - (Maximum of 2 De-Icing
    Services per day)
    o Deicing Service (Push scheduled/routed at another time) - (Maximum of 2 De-Icing
    Services per day)
    They've burned so many contractors for thousands after being months late on payments, now they spell it out so no one can miss it..



     Contractor Compliance:
     Failure to perform all contracted services outlined and documented in this scope of work will
    result in immediate termination. If you have not been performing services as clarified in this
    scope of work, and additional funding is needed in order to bring the location back up to company
    standards outlined in this document, funds may be deducted from your open invoices or charged
    back to your company, due to your neglect and breach of contract via the scope of work.
     Contractor shall submit prior to starting work, or no later than 30 days after service has started, a
    completed contractor package as required by Ferrandino & Son, Inc. Included but not limited to
    these documents includes a signed contractor agreement, proof of general liability and workers
    compensation insurance and any and all certifications deemed necessary to perform work on
    behalf of Ferrandino & Son, Inc.
     Interactive Voice Response
     The IVR System services as a “work order” confirming services for this contract. It is a
    process calling an automated system to check services in and out through a series of prompts.
     Using this system to log services is a mandatory component of this account. All necessary
    instructions and pin numbers will be distributed to you by Ferrandino & Son, Inc. upon execution of this
    contract and prior to the start of service.
     Failure to comply with this requirement may result in forfeit of payment for any services not
    logged into the system. If for any reason at any time complications exist when logging a service into
    the IVR, contractor is responsible to notify Ferrandino and Son while onsite.

    And hope to god you do not have ANY of your varioius insurance policies change or re-new during the snow season signed... they will hold all payments, even if you simply re-newed your insurance, they'll need an updated cert, easy enough, but then have two weeks processing time until payments are taking OFF hold...

    They also have an undisclosed amount of time for "invoice processing", where you are required to forward to them within 7 days of service, and ONLY upon when that invoice # is approved by Ferrandino & Sons, that you're time clock for their 45 day payment terms starts to count down... don't bank on a check in 45 days from then anyway.

    They have been known to be 60-90 days late on payments on THIRTY day terms and claim they're current on almost everything because they had too many storms and invoices to process so they're delayed a month... some invoices not processed for over a month plus your payment terms.... They even had noted that they have unlimited time to process invoices and there is no set time period.. What a racket for sure.:waving:
     
  2. mnguy

    mnguy Member
    Messages: 79

    Thanks for the insite would never work for them. Really don't feel sorry for any plowsite member who gets taken by them. They should know better to sign with them
     
  3. SnowGuy73

    SnowGuy73 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 24,868

    Interesting. Thanks for posting.
     
  4. elitelawnteam1

    elitelawnteam1 Senior Member
    Messages: 164

    DAMN! those are some real demanding terms. Where's the section that holds them accountable for anything? :laughing:
     
  5. LapeerLandscape

    LapeerLandscape PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,587

    I would never do a job for someone where it takes me longer to read their contract then it does to plow the site.
     
  6. elitelawnteam1

    elitelawnteam1 Senior Member
    Messages: 164

    :laughing:
     
  7. Banksy

    Banksy PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,113

    And yet every year some dope signs on the dotted line to do it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
  8. SHAWZER

    SHAWZER PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,149

    Wow , unreal . :dizzy:
     
  9. Sawboy

    Sawboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,591

    Exactly what I was thinking

    And yep. Every year, some dope signs on
     
  10. LapeerLandscape

    LapeerLandscape PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,587

    We need to make them sign our contract or make corrections to theirs. Why would we be liable in the months of may and june when were not getting paid for those months.
     
  11. beanz27

    beanz27 Senior Member
    Messages: 984

    Best quote I've read in a looooooong time regarding nationalsThumbs Up:laughing:
     
  12. Flawless440

    Flawless440 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,543

    I wish i could find out how to get them to take me off there call list. Been telling them to F Off for 7 years now.. I tell them to try Craigslist every time.
     
  13. Chineau

    Chineau Senior Member
    Messages: 447

    it makes it attractive to get a job some where and punch a clock,almost.
     
  14. snowymassbowtie

    snowymassbowtie Member
    Messages: 75

    QUOTE: I wish i could find out how to get them to take me off there call list. Been telling them to F Off for 7 years now.. I tell them to try Craigslist every time.

    __________________
    I think there are laws to stop this. They should also have to supply a way for you to be able to opt out. Not sure if these are federal or indvidual state laws but there are some.
     
  15. AccuCon

    AccuCon Senior Member
    from CT
    Messages: 440

    Thumbs Up

    This is just ridiculous I would never work for them.
     
  16. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    As bad as this contract is, i've seen one or two worse from other companies in the last two weeks...
     
  17. snowman55

    snowman55 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,071

    My reply is " pound sand, buy a plow truck" good news is Calls from nat'l co' s have increased along with their urgency. Word is getting out and they can't find people to work for thm. Their business model may be collapsing,
     
  18. ponyboy

    ponyboy Senior Member
    Messages: 956

    Calls have increased because more companies are using Natl snow companies
     
  19. snowbrothers101

    snowbrothers101 Senior Member
    Messages: 154

    I do a PS direct and that is the same scope I got from them. I assume everyone realizes it is the clinet who writes these scopes when Corporate is involved. I used to to it with the local guy and it was easy but once Corporate writes a scope, it is game on. I've seen it the same with every national retailer I work with. Ever try bidding work through a corporate office? Brutal. So many hoopps to jump through i"m amazed anyone wins.
     
  20. BC Handyman

    BC Handyman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    Thanks for posting, thats a good read. That post will help a few stay clear of them....in storage lots anyway :)
    Glad I never delt with a company like that.