1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

The FOOD CHAIN of Plows

Discussion in 'Residential Snow Removal' started by BUBBACHUKA, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. BUBBACHUKA

    BUBBACHUKA Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Is it me or, on the food chain of plows the Homesteader is getting ranked on ALMOST as bad as the SnowBear. We had our 1st major storm of 15 inches (central MA) and it was my first storm with the Homesteader and it more than handily surpassed my expectations. Yes the blade could be a little taller (24-28") but I was most concerned about how high I would be able to stack, and had absolutley no problem making a 5-6' high pile. The controls are great / very responsive. Easy to mount/dismount and move around while off the truck. I think fisher has a great product here, nothing but a recomendation here. (although some accessories wouldn't be bad, like a 4-6" blade extension/flap)
     
  2. dunedog

    dunedog Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    Bubba some good points made.
    Sometimes you have to read between the lines to see it is immaturity,inexperience,and/or Tim the Toolman Binford 2500 mentality to blame !!:eek:
    If it works for you that's the important thing and if we can help someone else with their setup then there's something to be shared ! purplebou
     
  3. PhantomRacer

    PhantomRacer Senior Member
    from boston
    Messages: 128

    I do not think the SB 'ranks' low with owners and operators of the plow.

    Certainly it is not as 'Good' as a full size honkin heavy duty plow...but dollar for dollar it can not be beat. Nothing to break on it other than the winch (easy to replace). No hydraulics to break or plumb...easy to get parts. Easy for anyone to fix anything on it.

    I have been blown away by how well the SB works...

    The homesteader can only be a lot better than the SB. I can not imagine anyone bashing it.

    Every product has its purpose. Every report/review/opinion must be considered based on it's source.

    We also have a sailboat - Macgregor 26M. The is the snowbear of the sailing world...EVERY 'real' sailboat makes fun of it...but it works for us...works well..and is hundreds of thousands of dollars less than a 'real' sailboat with similar features.

    We are used to having 'underdog' products....but when it works..it works...

    Paul
     
  4. dunedog

    dunedog Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    Hey you could own a 26' Bristol.....purplebou
     
  5. MrBigStuff

    MrBigStuff Senior Member
    from Boston
    Messages: 140

    Homesteader

    We got 18" on the north shore. First time with the Homie. The Trailblazer (4x4) was fishtailing pretty good on the first pass. That's a big load for that truck and plow combo. Plus, I'm used to a full sized rig so expectations are higher than they should be. At any rate, it plowed the drive and had no problems stacking to about 6 ft. plus.

    I really like the fact that even the receivers can be easily removed making it practically invisible with the plow off. And no loss of ground clearance either.

    My biggest issue is with the "jacks" they use. Pretty loose term for a jack. It's very hard to take the load off the plow gear with those. Makes pulling the pins very hard at times. A real trailer type jack that can be cranked up/down would be better and I'll probably add one soon.
     
  6. justme-

    justme- 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,138

    You'll find most of the situations where these get bashed is either when the person asking wants to plow more tha his/her own home (has dreams of becoming a small commercial plower) like, "I want to plow my drive, my neighbors, my small business 1/2 acre lot, my aunts drive, and the senior on the corner,... for now... If you want a home duty plow, remember it's a home duty plow and plow your home. Nothing wrong with either a SB or a Homesteader for that.
    The other time is when the Pro's get in and press the "professional" thought process on a homeowner. Why spend $2000 for a SB when for $3000 you can have a MM2- while that makes sense, it's not always right for the situation. I don't think anyone here intentionally bashes any of the home grade plows, but I DO see alot of homeowners intending to use them beyond what they are intended for.
     
  7. PhantomRacer

    PhantomRacer Senior Member
    from boston
    Messages: 128

    Does it cost under $20K NEW, and is it able to float in 12" of water, and can be pulled with an average size car? without a permit? Can it plane under power?

    That is why we got the Mac. NEW=$20K (+ motor), can float in a foot of water, trailer without a permit. Kept on the trailer...and motors to 20-odd knots on plane :D Not many other SAILboats can leave a rooster tail like the Mac!

    Same deal with the SB. It works well for its intended purpose and intent.

    Paul
     
  8. jav1

    jav1 Junior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 20

    Bubbachucka,

    I see what you mean. I've been reading every post I can on every plow that might fit my needs. Homesteader and Suburbanite were high on my list. You'r right - they both seem to get bashed some (not as bad as SB but bad enough).

    I'm glad your happy with your setup but to be honest, I'm no longer considering one in part becuase of some of the complaints. But the bigger reason for me is the price point. These brand name "home-owner" plow setups are no bargain in my area. Both the Homestaeder and the Suburbanite were about $500 more expensive than a non-homeowner grade Blizzard. They were $1950 more expensive than the Snowbear.

    OK, I can understand that some vehicles can't handle a real heavy plow- hence the lighter duty versions. But why price them higher than many other brands heavy duty plow options? It seems to me that sales of these packages would appeal to allot of guys that other wise chose different options (-like me). Some of the bashing comes from guys that had the same realization and can't understand why guys chose to pay more for less - not that this justifies the bashing but I can understand the sentiment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2005
  9. Ken1zk

    Ken1zk Senior Member
    Messages: 192

    Very well said dunedog, heck i should make that 1st line my sig....:nod:

    Us Sno-way owners get the same krap
     
  10. MrBigStuff

    MrBigStuff Senior Member
    from Boston
    Messages: 140

    When I was shopping I gave this some thought too. After looking around at all the homeowner plows, I see that most of them are pretty durable. To make them durable and light, takes some engineering and often more labor. There's more gusseting so more welding operations as an example. The materials may also play a role. The poly blade material may actually be more expensive than steel they use for moldboards. Then there's the issue of volume. They make significantly more commercial grade plows that they do the homeowner type. The material and manufacturing costs can be significantly less expensive if you have enough volume.
     
  11. justme-

    justme- 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,138

    It's not just manufacturer volume- remember a Fisher dealer, for example, is not Fisher, just a guy with some business that sells Fisher plows- could be a truck/car dealer, could be a hardware store, could be a repair shop, anything for that matter. The more plows the individual dealer buys and the more $$ in business he does with the company the better prices he gets the stuff for- some companies only concern dealer discounts/cost at volume of business in total others are more specific to the product requiring x number of product A to be purchased for price A and number of product B is irrelevent.

    There is also the case where a dealer buys a couple of the lighter duty plows, for example, and sells one this year, has to store the others until he sells them. His invested cost per piece goes up due to storage and finane charges (if applicable) increasing his need to recoupe hence maybe a higher cost.

    The biggest contributor is going to be dealer volume for sales and that's dependant on your local economy. My local fisher dealer is the biggest in the area- deffinatly the best prices because of it.
     
  12. jav1

    jav1 Junior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 20

    Bigstuff- very valid points regarding engineering, labor and materials costs-

    Justme- also valid on the volume side.


    I deal with these very issues in my job daily. The problem I see is that both factors are inter-related and unless a company positions itself to leverage them to their benefit (which I don't think Fisher has), it can actually hurt them.

    For example - Fisher designs Hoemsteader at considerable cost and innovation. In considering it's target audience, it should have an idea of which competeing products it will likely face, and what its target audience will use as criteria to make a purchasing decision. In any business, cost is usually very high on the list. If they position the product correctly, then they may garner more sales, volumes increase, economies of scale will reduce and amortize development and manufacturing expenses and despite the lower price, higher profits can be achieved.

    Position the product wrong, and some customers will have other choices, volumes drop, and margins can actually go down despite the higher price which can have a cascading effect.

    In my mind, many guys have big enough vehicles for standard duty plows but are not "professionals" and they could have gone either way. In other words, the homeowner plow would be enough for them - they don't need a heavy duty unit. BUT - if that heavy duty unit costs less and is percieved to be better, I know what most guys would do.
     
  13. BUBBACHUKA

    BUBBACHUKA Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Jav1

    You also want to make a profit if you are the mfg. but don't want the price so low or convienent that it over saturate the market and every Tom Dick and Harry has one. Plus while you work the bugs out of any new product you don't want to have to fix/recall a million units. I really didn't have an issue with the cost......its all perception in getting what you pay for ....(as well as having someone stand behind their product if there ever is a problem)
     
  14. MrBigStuff

    MrBigStuff Senior Member
    from Boston
    Messages: 140

    jav1

    Excellent points as well. Too many companies rush to produce a me too product using poor marketing research, do not understand the factors that are critical to success and end up damaging their image among consumers. It is very difficult to win back customers and with the internet, the voice of the customer has never been more powerful.
     
  15. jav1

    jav1 Junior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 20

    Bubba,

    maybe were the backwards company becuase we want every Tom, Dick & Harry to have at least 2 of everything we make.

    But boy, you hit a hot button with me. I totally disagree with working out the bugs AFTER a product is released. Boy it just chaps my arse when that happens! It has become so commonplace in the computer industry that I've stopped buying new software becuase you buy this brand new package, install it from the CD, and then you have umpteen updates that have to be downloaded to fix bugs that existed at release! And everybody from Microsoft on down does it now - put junk in the market place, get paid up front then fix it as you go. Maybe I'm just old school but thats no way to build a name (at least not a good name)... and the more we as consumers put up with it, the more it will happen! Can you imagine buying a new car off the showroom floor knowing full well it has to go straight over to service so that you could use it? Thats happening more and more with all products becuase companies adopt the mentallity thats it's ok to use the public for product testing. Sorry for the rant but if you can't tell, I've been bitten by that dog one time too many.

    BTW - I'm glad that you like your plow and that you chose to buy it despite the cost. To me that says that Fisher has done right by you, and you have chosen to do right by them - every company should appreciate and reward customers like you. I was only suggesting that Fisher might have picked up more customers and volume if that had positioned this setup differently - and I'm one of them.

    MrBigStuff,

    you are so right and in my view this mentallity is whats killing the american manufacturing base. Bean counters are making decisions with little or no knowledge of what it takes to have long term success. Its all about the numbers today! Instead of going back to basics when things go bad, they just look at cost reductions, off shore manufacturing savings and putting out the current fires with bandaids...

    Sorry, having a bad morning.
     
  16. BUBBACHUKA

    BUBBACHUKA Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Jav1

    I agree totally


    I don't want to be a BETA TESTER unless I Volunteer
     
  17. justme-

    justme- 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,138

    I think that is exactly Fisher's point of view and aimed business.

    Incidently, I think the "bean counter's" problems of being inept in the real world of business (examples range everywhere, from Walmart to Ford Motors) is a good deal from the worthless degrees too many of them seem to have. Anyone who has ever worked with a Harvard MBA knows what a waste of money that piece of paper is- same can be said for a Brandeis MBA and several others. Some name schools educate by the book, which unfortunatly seems to be based on principles that the real world doesn't function by and those people get high ranking jobs by "the good ol' boy network" or impressing ignorant employers with their degree and school.

    Imagine, if you will, that physicists were taught Einstein's Theory of Relativity in school as laws of physics but the real world didn't work by it. The equivalent is those wrongly educated still forcing that Theory on their work causing all manner of incorrect results and failures. The laws of probability means these inept studies will occasionally stumble into the correct resultant through no fault of their own.
    Now imagine their bosses all believing they're still correct because they went to a presteigous school.
     
  18. douglasl330

    douglasl330 Senior Member
    Messages: 356

    WoW this post has gone way deep for a normal post!!!!!!! I think the question was Bashing homesteader and SB plows---- If the people that buy them and use them for thier intended use, I don't think you would see much bashing---They do the job they are intended to do--Move snow!--It's when they are put over and above the intended use is most likely where the bashers are chiming in !!!!!!! All the other posts in this thread are great!!!!
     
  19. gpin

    gpin Senior Member
    Messages: 390

    Both SB and Homesteader plows are great for their intended use and I know some people who use them successfully for light commercial work.

    Here's my advise: Plow with the storm, about every three inchs. Easier on your trans and 4wd and won't go over the top of the plow as fast. Yes it takes a little more time, but a blown rear or tranny is very expensive.
     
  20. damguy

    damguy Junior Member
    Messages: 12

    I agree Bubba, too much bashing of the (not so) inexpesive plows. Been reading everything about the Homie since I found this site last year wondering if it's the right pick for my 02 Taco. I plow with an ATV and the thrill is gone. I'm ready to plow with the heat on!!!!! Seen newbies come and go here seeking advise and getting conned into buying something too heavy for their rig and costing them more in suspensions mods etc. I'm sure plows like the Homie or Suburbanite are fine if used in moderation. Where did you get your Bubba and what do you have it on? When you think about it though,i guess this bashing is just human nature. Be it motorcycles, atvs, cars or plows someone always thinks theirs is better and feel the need to brag/bash. 5-6' piles eh, I'm impressed! Wish my quad could stack like that.

    Damguy