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Tank spraying of de icing agents???

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Greenman2ooo, Oct 6, 2000.

  1. Greenman2ooo

    Greenman2ooo Banned
    Messages: 107

    This is directed at anyone, but I saw where NY
    Snow Pros uses a liquid magic tank on his truck. I'm unfamiliar with liquid de icing agents.

    How much would the magic cost and what type of rates is it used at? How is it used? Can liquid magic be used as a lone de icing agent (Would I need to spread granular as well?) How much would a liquid applicator cost? Where might I view one on the web?

    Thanks in advance.
  2. JCurtis

    JCurtis Banned
    Messages: 862

    call John Parker at Taconic Maintenance ( NYSnowpros)



  3. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Raod temp, air temp, and humidity are all huge factors with any liquid deicer/anti icer.
    In fcat one story is as related as so. A consultant was called in to discuss liquid applications to a DOT.Now this man knows more about deicers than just about anyone.
    Well he takes them to an inetrsection and has the truck lay down a nice coating of liquid deicer. I dont remember what type, I believe cal chloride.I also think it was a warmer humid day. Well the liquid deicer started pulling moisture from the humid air, and turned the whole intersection into a gooye slimy mess, and caused an accident. they has the sand the snot out the roadway to pick up the liquid. So it just shows that even an expert can really mess up with liquid deicers. Stay with the granular.
    The main problem with them is education and know when to do what. What magic does, is coat the granular salt. You apply the salt with a spreader and no problems. Very easy to switch to, and even easir to use. The tank John has is to spray bulk storage of salt.
    Call John or myself, we will be happy to extole magics virtues.
    John Allin, why arent you using this yet? I cant belive with all the time spent with J Parker he hyasnt converted you yet. Its like a religion with him.
    Everyone chant in unison.
  4. Greenman2ooo

    Greenman2ooo Banned
    Messages: 107


    I may have the use for bulk salt, but no place to store, treat, etc. So I'm likely going to be limited to bag products. I see bagged magic is 3x as much as regular salt, so it would have to be better than mag which, from what I understand, is the same ingredient that magic deposits on salt (magnesium) so I don't know what to think, here.
  5. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Magic is 50% mag chloride and 50% distilled solids. The distilled solids work great as a deicer, but the mag is a better carrier for the distilled solids.
    What is great about it, is that you can coat salt with it.You cannot coat salt with mag, or calicium, it will activate the salt on the spot, and then run out of your pile. That is why they use mag and cal as prewet agents on salt spreaders.
    Also the magic coated salt will work down to -10 degrees and work much longer than straight salt, with longer residual effects and no refreeze.
    The bagged produst is more expensive than salt, but mush less than calcium in bagged form. Nad alot better for plants, concrete and people. You can eat magic salt and nothing will happen. Ask anyone from the BBQ I ate some. Cant do that with cal chloride.
  6. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Sure you can,, once!

    Well,, form my somewhat limited testing last winter, I can say that Magic salt definately works better, faster and colder than straight salt.

    By the way, unless you are really tight for room, you can come up with bulk salt storage for not much money. I've got about $500 invested in a bin that will hold 12-15 tons. Loading out is relatively easy, about 5 minutes to load 700 lbs with an electrically powered auger, same way I fill it in the first place. That auger makes a great way to coat the salt with Magic.

    [Edited by Alan on 10-07-2000 at 01:41 AM]
  7. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    We can't get magic0 here, or we WOULD be using it.

    The Magic dude (not Parker) wants us to carry it, but we have no-where to store enough of it to make it worth bringing it in. I got enough going on right now. I don't want to be a distributor.
  8. Matt

    Matt Member
    Messages: 68

    John we are talking to a supplier out of the Buffalo area for magic salt here in Jamestown. If you would like the contact name let me know and I will E-mail it to you.

  9. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Oh yeah. Please do. I wonder what he'll charge to come spray our piles?? I'd love to start using that on our salt piles. I'm certain we'll give our customers much better results with it, from what I know.

    Yes. Please email it to me.

    Thanks Matt.
  10. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Actually (and I just thought of this) we have a couple of 1600 gallon poly tanks sitting empty out back that we could store the magic product in, and then just pump it into the salt building and spray it ourselves. I saw that set up at John Parkers place one of the times I was out there.

    Yup. Now I'm REAL interested in that address/phone number.
  11. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Congratulations John, you're finally a Senior Member now!;)

  12. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327


    Can you describe that auger system you have??

    We just purchased a new (used) salt truck this afternoon, and our Bobcat 853 JUST gets over the top. We talked about rigging up a conveyer belt system to load this (and the other trucks) instead of using the skid steer fully extended.

    I'm interested in the system you mentioned above.
  13. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Yeah... I wondered if it would turn at 100. Feels like I'm really "in" now.

    Unfortunately, I'm also now addicted to this thing. Peggy's not thrilled that I feel that I have to "check in" before we hit the sack for the night.

    Now... you guys aren't better than ..... nope. skip it.
  14. n y snow pros

    n y snow pros Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    John the distributor they are talking to is probably Rochester jet blak.I beleve they have several locations one of which is inBuffalo and of course one in Rochester.The guy you want to speak to is Jason.I dont have the tel# handy but there in the book.I will e mail it to you on monday.
    Greenman,dont confuse Magic as just salt with some mag on it ,it is much more than that and that is why it costs more than mag or salt and why it works at lower temps,has a residual effect,and much safer for the environment.If you use salt presently you are obviously trying to reduce the risk of any ice and know that salt works well.But once the temps drop below 18 degrees you may as well keep the salt in your spreaders and wait for the temp to rise because salt is virtually useless.If you coat that salt with Magic WELL, its like telling Santa Clause he over slept and its 3:eek:o am and the red fat boy just had a fire lit under his butt and man hes blazin a trail to get all those presents delivered.Bottom line Magic has the same effect on snow and ice.I dont know how to be more frank than it kicks butt.

    [Edited by ChucksChevyPages on 10-07-2000 at 03:57 AM]
  15. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317


    This is what I expected the SIMA message board to be like. Hopefully, after the site makeover, more guys will read and post there. When I asked for this forum to be created, it was long before I was a SIMA member. After seeing the activity on this, compared to SIMA's... well, you know, you POST here, and I haven't seen any recent posts from you on the SIMA board.

    Actually, that was a topic of one of my newsletter articles, Information. I basically talked about how many great resources there are on the internet, and how many great networking tools there are for people in the Snow & Ice control biz on the web. Sooooooo many resources on the web if you know where to look! That's another reason I created Snowplowing-Contractors.com... to help educate, and share resources!

    If your wife is mad at you for reading this board so much, then you DEFINITELY are a Senior member now!

    Welcome to the "Wife's Mad at Me" club!

    "Will you get off that damn computer and come to bed!"

  16. iowastorm

    iowastorm Senior Member
    Messages: 358

    Okay, I'm actually going to make a serious post (nobody pass out). FYI: some of you might remember that I started a thread a few weeks ago concerning CMA (calcium magnesium acetate) by a company called Cryotech, here in Iowa (where we grow potatoes). We're going to start using it this year on have sold 7 of our high paying clients on it. As some of you may know the CMAK is a clear liquid is a very low corrosive anti/de-icer that can be used in place of salt and contains no chlorides or sodiums. The dry CMA also breaks down into a clear liquid base and has the same benifits of liquid CMAK. Our position is that the liquid product will dramatically cut down on shoveling/snow blowing time w/ proactive use and I really think that despite that more significant up front costs, it will save out clients on long-term maintenance and us on staffing and hourly expenses. I will give updates on the progress of this product and in no way wish to offend the Magic Salt crowd (don't worry, I bowed when I typed the words Magic Salt).
    More later on this . . .
  17. n y snow pros

    n y snow pros Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    Iowastorm,you are not offending me or anyothers by using CMA it is a great product,and you should have great success with it.Magic is not the only product.So dont feel you have gone in a different direction .In fact i would like to here how it works for you and the various experiences you have with it.Good luck with it and i am sure you will notice a difference in your service.Caution! make sure your supplier explains all of the precautios if you use CMA or any other chemical in liquid form.If he tells you there are no problems please call me as should be warned.
    John Parker 845-485-4200
  18. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Tammy and I met with the web people yesterday (Friday) and we got some great stuff going on. The revamped site should be up and running by Christmas. The intent is to make it great for SIMA members. I don't think it will take much away from this forum, but we intend to make it so that SIMA Members can do much more there than we are capable of doing here. Surveys, specifics on products, purchasing of SIMA products, critiques of upcoming and ongoing projects, decal sales for those that want them (even REALLY large ones), etc.

    We're excited by the possibilities, and look forward to giving the membership what it wants and needs with regards to an interactive site.

    OBRYANMAINT PlowSite.com Veteran
    from ohio
    Messages: 534

  20. Greenman2ooo

    Greenman2ooo Banned
    Messages: 107

    Magic in bagged form

    Wow, has this thread taken off!

    Anyway, Dino, you say bagged magic salt is cheaper than other bagged premium ice melters. Can you point me to pricing and a Midwest Distributor. I saw in Milwaukee they wanted almost $10 a bag which is the same as any other premium product. Salt is <$3 a 50lb. bag around here, so when it is warm enough, obviously I will just use salt.

    Next year, maybe the BBQ will attract people from all over the country if burgers are served rather than magic salt! :p