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Super Duty(s) Comparison

Discussion in 'Ford Trucks' started by Pelican, Oct 2, 2002.

  1. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    I've mentioned a number of times that the same front axle is used amongst the F-250, 350 and 550s, and have been met with skepticism, so here I offer how I came to this conclusion.

    In prepping my F-550 for the body company, I noticed a number of the components looked very similar to my F-350 SRW, so I did a detailed side by side comparison, and included my buddy's F-250 pickup. All are PowerStroke 4x4 models.

    Frame: Both the 350 & 550 have the same frame rails, the same stampings in all the same places. I don't have calipers to measure the gauge, but they appear similar to the eye. I can't comment on the F-250, my trucks are both cab & chassis models, I only have F-250 pickups, a foot shorter, to compare to.

    Front axle: Both my 550 and my 350, plus my buddy's 250 pickup have the same casting numbers on the housings. The steering components are all identical, except the passenger side tie rod end on my 550 is stamped F-450 for some reason. I have seen comments that the internals are different, I believe this is limited to the gears, 4.88s in the 550, 3.73 or 4.10s in the 250 & 350.

    Transfer case: All identical.

    Transmission: My 550 and the 250 have identical 6-speed trannies, my 350 has the auto.

    Rear axle: Here's where things take a different road. while the 250 and 350 share the same axles, the 550's is almost twice the size of the other trucks'. The spring shackles are either cast or forged on the 550, while the 250 and 350's are stamped steel. The spring stack is bigger on the 550 too, but the springs on the 250 & 350 appear identical. The 350 has bigger spacer blocks, giving it 2" more clearance.

    Wheels & tires: Another obvious difference. The 550 carries 19.5" wheels and tires while the 250 & 350 carry 235/85/16 & 265/75/16 tires respectively. The 250's tires can easily be upgraded to those of the 350 or better. I've come across G rated 235/85/16s that exceed the rating of the 350's larger tire, but the tread is not conducive to plowing.

    Brakes: The 250 & 350 share the same components again, while the 550's are visibly much larger.

    The point: I've seen a number of threads where concern is expressed at overloading the front axle, but here we see that the same components are used on a truck with a GVWR 7600 lbs heavier than the 350's. While you may exceed the manufacturer's maximum front axle weight rating, the physical capacity is much greater, the tires are the limiting factor. If you upgrade the tires, it is my feeling that you can safely mount any plow to either truck.
     
  2. chtucker

    chtucker Senior Member
    Messages: 618

  3. Brickman

    Brickman Senior Member
    Messages: 133

    From the Code give on one of the links above I have a Dana 50 in my F 250. Damn. Here all this time I thought I had a 60.

    Does any body know the code for determining what axle is in the rear.
     
  4. chtucker

    chtucker Senior Member
    Messages: 618

    They are the same in the 250 350 SRW (maybe duals too) 10.5" sterling (ford made) in the 99 and newer Superdutys... the pre 99 (97 if you want to get serious, because there wasn't a 98 250HD or 350HD) had the 10.25" sterling. Both very similar and can utilize some of the same internals (lockers and such)
     
  5. Hoopsfan

    Hoopsfan Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    Pelican

    Great info, but any idea why Ford won't warranty the diesel F350 CC with a plow? I have no doubt the truck would handle it. Being new to Ford, maybe I'm missing something.
     
  6. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    I've been trying to figure out their reasoning, it doesn't make sense to me. I understand that a crew cab would be heavier, but a plow would still keep the truck under GVWR. I'm willing to bet the safety police and attorneys have something to do with it.
     
  7. Nailit1954

    Nailit1954 Senior Member
    from ma.
    Messages: 100

    Pelican
    From reading the post lately you seem to me saying that the F350 psd is the best value? I believe you own both F350 and F550 , what is your opinion?
     
  8. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    Nailit, it would depend on your requirements. In my opinion, the F-250 with the Dana 60 front axle is the best value, there is virtually no difference between it and the F-350 SRW other than ground clearance, which is accomplished through the use of 2" higher spacer blocks.

    My 550 cost $4000 over my 350, and basically the only differences are rear axle, brakes and wheels/tires. I was expecting a bit more for the premium.

    I'm not saying you should load up a 350 to 17,500 (though I often did with my '97), I don't think the rear axle can handle it. It does seem, however, that the front axles of the 250 & 350 should be able to carry the same loads as the 550, although the tires are not up to the job.

    One thing I forgot to mention above: All three trucks use the same number and size of wheel studs to secure the wheels.
     
  9. Nailit1954

    Nailit1954 Senior Member
    from ma.
    Messages: 100

    Pelican

    Points well taken! Thanks for the reply.I 'm very happy with my 97 F350 psd 4x4 dump with a boss 9'2 v plow that is my daily driver. I't used in my construction buisness,(suits me fine.) Between dump runs with roofing etc.and plowing in winter time, it works for me!
    ps. I like the old style body for plowing,more square any thoughts
     
  10. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    Believe it or not, I think my '97 was more comfortable than the Super Dutys. My seat bolsters rub me in the thigh, and the shift lever on the 6 speed rubs my leg in reverse and low. It also seems like the seat is too far from the door, I usually lean on the door to look out the window while plowing, and this is uncomfortable.

    I do appreciate the conveniences in the new trucks however. My old trucks were XLs, I sprung for XLTs with the Super Dutys.

    The only real trouble my '97 gave me was spitting out three teeth on the rear ring gear, I'm still trying to figure out what caused it. I know how to drive heavy trucks, (I've grossed as much as 125,000, dump trailer) and never horsed the truck. I serviced it regularly too. I got the 550 so I wouldn't have to put a V box in and out anymore, and to increase capacity.
     
  11. Brickman

    Brickman Senior Member
    Messages: 133

    Chev/ Dodge butt whupper. :D

    truck pic 2.jpg
     
  12. Pelican

    Pelican 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,075

    What a sleeper! Do you pull 5th wheel trailers?
     
  13. Brickman

    Brickman Senior Member
    Messages: 133

    99% is this trailer with 3 or 4 cars. I am working on other things to haul. Trailers, compact Kubotas, etc.

    trailer.jpg
     
  14. Dockboy

    Dockboy Guest
    Messages: 0

    Brickman,

    You need to level that thing out;) :D

    Nice rig!

    Just put some new modified injectors in mine Fri. All I can say is:drinkup:

    Greg
     
  15. Brickman

    Brickman Senior Member
    Messages: 133


    Level out what? the truck? It sits like that because of the air bags. Add trailer and 4 cars and it sits nice and level. I have the on board air compressor on order. So I can dump the air when I am empty, and then pump it up for a load with out having to look for another air source. Air gauge and switch in the cab, sweet.

    :drinkup: on the injectors. I love Go fast toys, dang I wish they wouldn't make em so $$$$$$$$$. Right now I got a 75HP chip on it, propane to put on. The next thing as soon as I can afford it will be gauges for pyro and boost, and 4 inch exhaust. Not sure yet which order they will happen.
     
  16. Dockboy

    Dockboy Guest
    Messages: 0

    Brickman,

    An egt gauge is a must towing what you do with a chip:eek:

    When my truck was stock with a 54hp chip, I could get to 1300 degrees towing 10k lbs. with no problem. Having the gauges lets you know when to feather the throttle on those long uphill pulls. Otherwise it can be Bye-Bye turbo :realmad: Don't know if you have a 6-speed or auto? If it's an auto, get a tranny temp too! You would be amazed at what is happening when you can see it!

    My 4" exhaust lowered my egt's by a good 200 degrees

    I'm getting my chip(flip chip) retuned for the new injectors. I could hit 1600 degrees pre-turbo in extreme(130hp) without blinking an eye:eek: But boy is it FUN!!!

    Greg
     
  17. szorno

    szorno Senior Member
    Messages: 308

    axle question

    Hey Pelican,
    If I am understanding you correctly, your F250 SD with psd and your F350 SD srw have the same frame, front and rear axle, just different springs in the rear? If that is true, then I can relax my search for an F350 SRW used, and just go for a 250 and add air bags and E rating tires. (save mucho dollars) I have a 350 gal mag chloride tank I need to put in the back and 8 ft plow for front. That requires a GVW of about 9500.
    Your thoughts???

    (rig currently on 86 chevy 350 with 12K gvw)
     
  18. Brickman

    Brickman Senior Member
    Messages: 133

    Dockboy I got my propane on finally. The green beast becomes even meaner. As the Didges and Crapamaxes fade into the smoke of the exhaust. :D Waiting to see what happens with the hauling, I am expecting it to be bad azz there too.
     
  19. Dockboy

    Dockboy Guest
    Messages: 0

    Brickman,

    :cool: :D

    I've driven some trucks with the "pane"! Pretty awsome!!!

    I've been concentrating on getting as much HP as I can on #2 alone. Just put a BIG set of injectors in. Unbelievable power! We still have to work on tweeking the idle a little though. I have a Race-Technology meter(similar to a G-tech only much better and more accurate) and did some 1/4 mile comparisons:

    Stock, 4" exaust, Tymar air intake
    16.94 @ 80.8 mph

    Stock, 78hp Diablo chip, 4" exhaust and Tymar
    16.19 @ 87.2 mph

    BIG injectors, Wastegate disconnected, No chip, exhaust and Tymar
    14.82 @ 93.4 mph

    :eek:

    Greg
     
  20. Brickman

    Brickman Senior Member
    Messages: 133

    I had a 78 HP Diablo chip. The first one I got. That had a neck snapping power burst. The Bully Dog chip I got now and the propane kick in the power and go from there with out the burst. My chip dealer says that is better, easier on the power train.