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Subsidies

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by DCS MN, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. DCS MN

    DCS MN Senior Member
    Messages: 169

    As a commercial snow plower, why can't I relie on the government to support me if it doesn't snow? Farmers get the taken care of to an extent. I move snow, if it snows a lot I make money, crops get a lot of rain farmers make money. If it doesn't snow, I don't make a lot of money, crops don't grow, farmers get a diaster fund....

    What about the small business owner???
    This should be good...
     
  2. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    As an indepent self-reliant rugged capitalist, you are either joking or should be ashamed of yourself for wanting to take somebody else's money if you haven't earned it. I don't need to tell you thats just my opinion.
     
  3. wizardsr

    wizardsr PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,557

    Be careful what you wish for, it may just get rammed down your throat like Obamacare... :realmad:
     
  4. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305

    Thank You !
     
  5. DCS MN

    DCS MN Senior Member
    Messages: 169

    Just wanted to see what type of people would respond to this type of post. There is no CHANGE in my household!!!! We were just havin a few beers and thought it was a great topic so I threw it on.

    Waiting for the other side to chime in.
     
  6. DCS MN

    DCS MN Senior Member
    Messages: 169

    By the way do you know the farmers most used implament?????


    The mail box.....

    This should work.
     
  7. wizardsr

    wizardsr PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,557

    Log off, and go have another... :drinkup:
     
  8. rob_cook2001

    rob_cook2001 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,181

    Hey I am a farmer and your all wrong, my most used implement is the bottle opener lol.
     
  9. PatrickC

    PatrickC Senior Member
    Messages: 163

    California has pot legalization on the ballot for November if it passes there will be some new farms with funny implements next season LOL
     
  10. DCS MN

    DCS MN Senior Member
    Messages: 169

    All in good fun, just wanted to see if I could ruffle any feathers. But there is a little truth to it.
     
  11. dodge2500

    dodge2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 231

    We are a large farm and we also run a commercial snowplowing business. Your comments make you look like an ignorant fool who doesn't know the half of what goes in to farming. I get really tired of people thinking we live off subsidies. I bet you don't have 2 mil in equipment sitting in the shed and large land rents and payments that have to be paid every year and a 750k line of credit that you need just to put your crop out there each year and then wait until the next year to get your money. The grass is always greener on the other side or at least that is what you must think. I doubt you would last one day as farmer.
     
  12. JDiepstra

    JDiepstra PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,780

    Hey if you don't like farming, don't do it.

    I would like to be paid not to plow. Just like farmers are paid not to farm. Seems fair.
     
  13. DCS MN

    DCS MN Senior Member
    Messages: 169

    Easy hawse, I knew I would strike a nerve with somebody. Like I said eariler this is all in fun, you don't have to tell me about farming, I still have family that runs 1000 head dairy farm.

    Take a couple deep breaths, don't take some scatter chat on a web site so seriously. You'll live longer.:nod:
     
  14. IMAGE

    IMAGE Sponsor
    Messages: 1,741


    (for the sake of arguement)

    So If I got myself into that situation in the snow business...

    I buy a barge of salt in May, hoping it is a icey winter and I can sell it all the next winter. I am buying it at May's price... hoping the market for it will be high when I sell it. (just like a farmer with corn...) I put half on my line of credit...

    I also buy lots of payloaders, dump trucks, etc... to plow snow with. (there are snow removal companies with more then $2m in equiment). I hope it snows so I can make all the payments on the line of credit I bought some of it with this year.

    To ensure I have operators IF it does snow, I have to employ 8 guys year round, paying them if it snows or not.

    I also have to pay the rent on my commercial land, on the rented land my salt pile is on, and employ a secretary.

    Now I didnt just get myself in this overnight, I've been doing this 25 yrs, and understand the business.But after 4 seasons of no snow, and mild winters, I have not been able to make enough money to do this anymore. I can't pay the guys, I didn't sell all the salt, and what I did sell, some of it was for a loss, because salt prices dropped after 2 light winters.

    This is a disaster for me. Where is my check?




    THE ABOVE IS ALL FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT. IT DOES NOT RELATE TO ME AT ALL. I just think this is a good discussion, same as the OP.
     
  15. buckwheat_la

    buckwheat_la 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,254

    i am of two trains of thought, first off, please don't tell me you don't "PLAY" off the subsidies, because all farmers do, (i've known farmers to plant corps that would never grow, on the land they planted on just to get subsidized), and don't even get me started on the "Mad Cow Disease" talk about political agenda, however I also think that the farming industry is very regulated, therefore the government has to step up and take some of the responsibility for ITS RULES!!! I for one don't blame farmers for playing off the subsidies, and lets be honest, we all would if we could. And for those of you who say "why does government regulate the farming industry" well, mainly because it is by far the most important industry in the world!!! the fact is that if farmers started selling all their produce with no regulatio at all, it would spell disaster; wealthy countries, could control the rest of the world with the control of food supplies. what would happen if farmers all decided to band together and set there own prices!!! you think the oil industry is bad (and anyone that doesn't believe the oil industry price fixes is deluded) could you imagine what the food industry would be like? So i wont begrudge farmers there subsidies, and i know to run a farm is damn hard work (grew up a farm boy myself).
     
  16. dodge2500

    dodge2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 231

    I agree with what you said with your risks and what not. What I disagree with is someone saying that we get bailed out by the government if things don't go well. For instance, we grow 320 acres of processings tomatoes, this year was a very bad year for tomatoes being it was so hott and humid and they got a lot of disease, our yields were half of what they usually are. It takes 2/3 of a usual crop to pay for the fixed costs each tomato year. We will lose close to 100k on that part of our business this year. There is no subsidie for tomatoes or any specialty crop and subsidies for commodity based crops only kick in when prices are very very low and even then they don't cover expenses. The only way to guarantee anything is by buying all risk type insurance. That type of insurance is very expensive. I am not trying to rant or get on someones case but I get sick of people thinking we have it so easy as farmers when they themselves are not one and do not know. Lets all face it, there is no free lunch out there and that is why we all as entreprenuers get rewarded for taking risks but with those risks also can come failure. If being self-employed was easy, everyone would want to do it. It isn't easy relying on the weather like we do in the snow, lawn, and farming businesses along with other weather dependent businesses. So sorry for getting on anyones case but, I just don't appreciate comments people make about something they really know nothing about.
     
  17. dodge2500

    dodge2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 231

    I agree with the idea of wanting a guarantee if we didn't get snow but I mean lets be real, who wouldn't plow snow if we all got payments even if it didn't snow?? The industry is already saturated enough. If you took the risk away, and the reward still remains where it is, there would be way more companies doing snow removal. The barriers to entry in the snow business are just too small. I guess the only way we can get guarantees is to sell seasonal contracts but then again those can burn you too. As in agriculture, there is no perfect way and no perfect answer.
     
  18. JDiepstra

    JDiepstra PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,780

    Lets be honest.... we all know that when farmers only produce 1/2 the tomatoes they were expecting too, they don't take a loss. They just raise the price on the tomatoes they were able to produce. Supply down, demand same = price up!
     
  19. dodge2500

    dodge2500 Senior Member
    Messages: 231

    I wish that was the case but like I said, we produce PROCESSING tomatoes not fresh market tomatoes. We are under contract to produce x amount of tons at a set price which is dictated by the company we grow for. The whole supply demand thing may work in the fresh market world but not in the processing world. The processing world is controlled by about 5 big suppliers and they dictate the price.

    My whole point is that there is no free lunch for anyone no matter what you all may think about farm subsidies. Farms go out of business and get swallowed up by the mega operators each and every year. Farming has come to be a business that is all about economies of scale just like many other types of businesses. Our margins get squeezed just like everyone else.
     
  20. plowatnight

    plowatnight Senior Member
    from Mn
    Messages: 305