1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Sub Questions and things to look out for

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself to the Community' started by jdilliplane1, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. jdilliplane1

    jdilliplane1 Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    First off, Let me say thank you to everyone on this site. Throughout the many forums and threads, I have increased my knowledge greatly over the past few weeks.

    I am a newbie to using a snow plow to remove snow, but have worked the past few years doing snowblowing, shoveling, etc as the storms came in. This year I have decided since my 99 F250 already has a western unimount on it, although I didn't buy the plow from the previous owner, I know stupid, to take the chance and jump in on subbing myself out. I already have one guy that I picked up about 15 properties from, most small, a few about an hours work. Since that doesn't have to be done until snow stops, I am looking at subbing for some of the bigger construction companies around here. I got commercial auto, the liability, but am alarmed at some of the wording in the contractual language. Even though they are gonna pay me 75 an hour and supply salt, no shoveling needed, I am a little leary of lawsuits. My regular job is as a firefighter and I see the BS everyday from people trying to get rich off someone else's back.

    So, for those of you who have subbed B4, what should I be careful of in choosing someone to sub for. It seems as if they stack the cards against you with the language so that no matter what happens, your at fault. I don't want to be out of business the first year because of some a##hole.

    Any advice is appreciated and welcomed.
  2. First you have already taken a step in the right direction by even worrying about this, not just taking the first offer of money that was thrown at you. While I havent really subbed much the last few years (finally built my business to the point where I am usually the one looking for subs), i will occasionaly sub out a loader or something like that. I have made it a practice to never sign a contract which contains ANY language I may be uncomfortable with. When I started doing this job years ago I ran into the same issues. I in the end, decided to forego working for the "big guys" and subbed for some smaller outfits. I also on the advice of both my attorney and insurance agent was able to have them sign my contract, which contained their required language, as well as a provision stating that they retained primary liability for the job. After all it is their contract and the are only paying you a portion of what they are actually getting paid. Shop yourself around and see what you can find, and most importantly dont enter into any agreement you feel uncomfortable with. Also if you are on a jobsite and they are appearing to be a bunch of unsafe idiots, theres nothing wrong with saying this isn't for me and walking away from that company. I'm not located all that far from you (about 2 hours) so I am aware that you have lots of options down there, so you are bound to find a company that you enjoy working for and treats you well. Best of luck to you!
  3. jdilliplane1

    jdilliplane1 Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    thanks for the reply. After both my wife and I read over the contract, we have decided to forgo the offer even though the money is tempting. But in the end I don't feel comfortable signing a contract which assigns full responsibility on the sub with the parent company to reap the benefits risk free. I am going to shop around and see what I can come up with. Also, if you ha e any contact info for outfits that are quality employers, feel free to send them my way.
  4. jdilliplane1

    jdilliplane1 Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    :confused:Now this company is emailing me about still working for them. When I expressed my concern, I was told that this is the standard contract that all subcontractors get and that I am only responsible for the plowing of the lots and salting, etc. i.e if I hit a lightpole. The sidewalks, etc are the responsibility of the company as are any slip/fall incidents. The contract does not state this in any shape or form. I think if they want me to work for them, then I am going to see about drawing up my own contract or getting something in writing from them, notarized stating these facts. I think I should be covered then in case of anything, Correct
  5. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

    Is the company you are going to sub for asking to be named as a additionally insured on your policy.....

    I would be Very Leery about not being held responsible for any slip and falls or damage...
  6. jdilliplane1

    jdilliplane1 Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    yes they are requiring to be named on the policy. Not sure what the significance of this is as far as liability is concerned.
  7. BillyRgn

    BillyRgn Senior Member
    Messages: 713

    That is pretty standard, I don't do much subbing, but almost any big business that you are subbing for or plowing for directly is going to ask you to name them on your policy, and provide proof of insurance with them listed before you can plow, not usually a big deal, talk to your insurance agent, as some charge a small fee for everyone you add, however some do not, mine does not and I usually have about a dozen names added to my policy a year, your best bet is to talk to your attorney and insurance agent. take the contract to your attorney and see what he thinks, he will then usually do three things, one- revise the contract, two- write a new contract or three- tell you to get far away from the person and there interests hope this helps. But I would have to say the first step if I was you would be to talk to an attorney, to at least make sure your house, wife and other income is safe in the event of a lawsuit, I don't want to scare you but anyone that has been in the business long enough will tell you, It doesn't matter how good of a job you do chances are you will eventually get sued and you are gonna want to be prepared and be as protected as possible .good luck
  8. Harford13

    Harford13 Senior Member
    Messages: 147

    I love Subway Subs..... No reason to Sue
  9. mnlefty

    mnlefty Senior Member
    Messages: 963

    Not trying to be a dik, but I haven't been able to figure out how people with "real" jobs can get too involved in snow? I know there are a lot of firefighters that do lawn care on the side, mainly because they work 24 hr shifts and end up having a lot of free time, but that's a weekly schedule.

    What happens when the snow ends, it's time to go, and you've just started a 24 hr shift at the station?
  10. jdilliplane1

    jdilliplane1 Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    here in philly we work a 4 on 4 off alternating between two days of 8 to 6 followed by nights from 6 until 8. Also, allowing us to get off are mxt's or mutual exchange of tours where we can work for each other as needed as long as both parties agree to it. Basically your just swapping days if you have something you need off for.
  11. show-n-go

    show-n-go Senior Member
    Messages: 776

    I have an agreement at the car lot that i run. When it snows I am off work as long as i plow the lot at some point for them, of course they pay for my fuel and salt only. It works out well for me, we only get about 5-6 storms a year an average so it's not like im missing that much work plus the snow kills our business so it's not a big deal that i am off.
  12. NickDe03

    NickDe03 Junior Member
    Messages: 24

    I understand your concern with having all of the liability on you when you are sub contracted by another company. However isn’t it the same amount of liability that is against you when you plow a customer solely under your own company name? Your still 100 percent on the line when you plow your own customer. yeah it has me a little concerned too (I’m subbed for a few locations) but if I found those locations on my own and contracted them by myself I would have the same amount of liability. See what I’m saying?

    And in regards to plowing with a full time job. I have a similar situation. I work 8-4:30 as a project manager, but I have a deal that when it snows I get of PAID and I just have to keep the parking lot clear. It saves my company thousands and I get to make thousands.
  13. jdilliplane1

    jdilliplane1 Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    yea, everyone's situation is unique. I am thinking about taking the contract with an additonal page just detailing what they emailed me. I have two other leads on jobs that should pay a little better and gives me the freedom to work on my own. The original contract you just plow and salt parking lots and their crews do sidewalks, etc