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stop plowing across the street.

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by cjasonbr, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. cjasonbr

    cjasonbr Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 635

    I lost a dw right before a storm the other day. Some guy undercut me by a few dollars and the kid wanted to save money.

    Yes he has a contract but he's a college kid and doesn't understand.

    Anyways the dw is all sunken in and there's nowhere really to put snow. The new guy told the kid he'd clean it out better than i did.

    Well i went today to get my $, and all he did was drive up the dw and push all the snow down the dw and out into/across the street. The banks on the street are huge so i wouldnt think he's able to push it back past the bank.

    The dw is on route 9, 45mph zone, right before/after a blind turn, double yellow lines. I'm getting so sick of seeing other people pushing snow across the street. Or having homeowners tell me that's "how" to plow their driveway.

    99% of the time it's perfectly adequate to simply pile the snow at the end of the driveway and push it from the road onto the homeowners property off the dw.

    On heavily trafficked roads with moderately high speed limits i think it's moronic to push snow across. I'd be equally worried of being smashed into while i was doing it too.....

    hey maybe i would have quoted a few bucks less on the dw if i was planning on having the state do half the job.

    The bylaw in my town reads: "No person, other than an employee in the service of the town or an employee in the service of an independent contractor acting for the town, shall pile, push or plow snow or ice onto a town way so as to impede the flow of traffic on such way." The fine is $50
     
  2. cjasonbr

    cjasonbr Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 635

    the town over from me has this bylaw: "No person shall remove or cause to be removed snow or ice from any privately owned premises and deposit it on any way, sidewalk or public parking place. Violation of this by-law shall be punished by a fine of not over fifty dollars."

    http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/source/mass/bylaws.html
     
  3. Mrplow247

    Mrplow247 Member
    Messages: 46

    i agree with this, i hate customers that say they dont want piles so push it across the street, my answer is always no, or ill charge you 200 extra in case i get caught doing it 4 times i can pay the fine.
     
  4. supercuts

    supercuts Senior Member
    Messages: 114

    i dont push it across the street, but i understand why some do. where i live its more of a norm. i could care less if the get it off the road. what i have a problem with is when they cant get it up over the curb, leave the pile in the street and leave a 12" streak across the road. so, when your driving down the road, you cant see the white on white piles and clip a large pile with yoru plow.
     
  5. cjasonbr

    cjasonbr Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 635

    The worst part isn't the fine. It's the liability.

    If you push across the street, and someone ends up losing control there and blaming it on you. You're pretty much automatically at fault.

    I can see if they try to fine you, you could say that "noone was impeded" or "i didn't leave ANY snow in the rd every drop was off the rd when i left" but that stuff doesnt fly when the cops are looking at a car accident and your big snow bank on the side of the street leading right from the dw you plow.

    The proof is in the pudding sometimes so to speak you know??

    What if somebody gets hurt??????
     
  6. D&E

    D&E Senior Member
    Messages: 104

    I try as best I can to never push it across the road, but in some cases you really don't have any options. I have one house with a sunken in apron. The whole drive can be pushed into a turn-around off to the side, but there's no way to run a plow over the apron without tripping the blade if you're trying to push it towards the driveway. The only way to do it is to push the little bit from the apron across the street and up and over the curb. If I do it any other way I'm tearing out huge pieces of cement.

    I guess if you MUST do it, do it right and get it up and well over the curb so it's not a hazard to motorists, and for the love of god don't leave trails in the road. I hate that.

    My city has a law that snow must remain on the property it fell on. I just don't see any possible way around it sometimes, though.
     
  7. Mrplow247

    Mrplow247 Member
    Messages: 46

    could plow across street then re argue the rule that it must remain on the property it fell on!!!!!
    Just say you witnessed that snow blow across the street onto the dw that is your customer and by law you were just replacing it.:eek:
     
  8. lawnproslawncar

    lawnproslawncar Senior Member
    Messages: 605

    This is why I'm considering going 100% snowblowing on residential and small commercial lots.
     
  9. KEC Maintaince

    KEC Maintaince Senior Member
    from N.J.
    Messages: 265

    i see guys do it all the time and they know its illegeal but they dont care
    my question is cant the driver plow it into the street then push it to the side then pile it on the customers lawn in front of customers house. yes its more work but it would be on the customers lawn instead of being on some one elses property then if some one does crash into it its the customers snow not the plow guys problem.
    is this right or still wrong...
     
  10. hydro_37

    hydro_37 PlowSite Veteran
    from iowa
    Messages: 3,793

    alot of people push across the street here (me included) we even put it in the windrows the city leaves and let them use a blower to load it in city trucks
    we dont leave a mess in the street and no one complains
    nice to live in small town America
     
  11. sven1277

    sven1277 Senior Member
    Messages: 478

    We have some places where we don't have a choice but to push across the street. I would prefer not to however. We push it far enough up so that the town trucks don't touch it. We also clean the windrows. Its easy with a scoop plow.
     
  12. cjasonbr

    cjasonbr Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 635

    Still wrong. You can be sued for anything, in the end the judge decides.

    The name of the game is limiting your liability and weighing risk vs reward. In the end i just find plowing across the street not worth it at all.

    There's always other ways to finish the job, and if it takes longer following the rules then you bill the job accordingly. Cutting corners to save other people money while you take the risk is foolish IMO.

    I think most liability underwriters would settle if the facts of the case were the contractor illegally pushed across the street, supposedly resulting in damages. Usually if everyone else is following the rules except you, you'll get the blame, even if it's noones fault.
     
  13. KEC Maintaince

    KEC Maintaince Senior Member
    from N.J.
    Messages: 265

    i think i typed it wrong .
    what i was trying to say lets say you plow a circular drive in one side out the other.
    when you plow and get to the other side push the the snow to the street not all the way then turn the truck and plow the snow into the the customers property.
    the snow will be on the customers property just staked near one of the entrances off the road and out of the drive.
    the reason why im asking is i dont want to do it wrong
     
  14. Harold Finch

    Harold Finch Member
    Messages: 88

    Yes, we have the same law here but much more expensive fine. BTW its very dangerous for the smaller cars passing by when guys leave windrows across the street. Its not their property on the other side of the road. You wouldnt throw your garbage across the street would you? I beep/yell/flash etc at anyone i see doing that and point into the driveway.
     
  15. IMAGE

    IMAGE Sponsor
    Messages: 1,727

    I saw a guy tonight (he's been doing it all season) pushing snow from a driveway, onto the street into a pile, then 100' up the the intersection, making a pile there, then moving the pile another 100' down that street into a vacant lot. He tied up the road impeding traffic for a good 15 minutes. I called the po-po on him because I was traffic he was impeding. I gladly gave them the address of the driveway he was working in, and the name on the truck. They said they would send an officer over. Unfortunately I wasn't around to see if they got there before he was done. That **** pisses me off.
     
  16. MileHigh

    MileHigh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,827

    When I push into the street (never all the way across it)...LMAO...the city (cdot) is there to plow it away within 5 min.

    :drinkup:
     
  17. JTVLandscaping

    JTVLandscaping Senior Member
    Messages: 859

    Sometimes you just have to do it...thats how it is, hope you don't get caught and typically, as long as you clean it up and cause no real problems, the cops wont give you crap...its the same as the law that says you cant put things in mailboxes, I've left bills in mailboxes before, not my first choice but you gotta leave it somewhere
     
  18. IPLOWSNO

    IPLOWSNO PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,619

    i push mine across the street, with my wheeler, i have a ditch that i fill and then drive on it so i am actually 10' in the air, and i clean it well and then the boys drive by with the town plow and its clean again to look like the rest of the road,

    i hate the guys that are too lazy to clean it and you take off your lower valance goin thru it.
     
  19. Maleko

    Maleko Senior Member
    from Ct
    Messages: 776

    WOW..
    i would have held my train horns on till my tank ran out. Stuff like that pissed me off..

    I was driving down the road the other day when harry Home owner was snow blowing his walk right into the middle off the street. Wasnt paying attention at all as i got close i stopped to make sure he would stop blowing snow at me in the middle of the street. he had no clue i was there as well as other cars on the other side waiting.

    So i blasted him with the train horns, he jumped so freakin high i think he
    made do do...:laughing: I still laugh about it .... man that was funny
     
  20. cjasonbr

    cjasonbr Senior Member
    from Mass
    Messages: 635

    Just push it up to the edge of the dw and stop before it gets pushed on the rd. So the snow is piled up at the end of the dw. Then drive over it and while your truck is on the street where you have a good angle plow it off into the person yard. The snow never leaves the persons property.


    The liability for leaving a piece of paper in a container made for holding pieces of paper is lower than leaving piles/strips/any of snow in the street.