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Still more wiring troubles

Discussion in 'Boss Plows Discussion' started by sabres07, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    So if the plow is not attached, and I flip the in-cab switch from truck lights to plow lights, shouldn't the truck headlights be off? That is how it used to be on my '97 but on my 2005, the headlights still are on and I can even flip the high beams on. Did I do something wrong?
     
  2. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Yep they should go out when you flip the switch, plow attached or not. Sure the inline fuse isn't popped that feeds power to the relay pack? Check to be sure it has power at the relays as for some reason the relays aren't being switched.

    Do the truck lights work fine normally, hi and low beam wise? Got power on the red/black wire thats to be connected in the fuse panel inside the truck to a 12V ignition source?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  3. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    Thanks for the quick reply, BB. Anyways, everything worked yesterday when I had the turn signals wired to the DRL's but I went to switch everything over to the proper turn signal wires on the truck side, I re-used the taps which were marginal. I figured it would just be temporary unitl I can get new ones. Passenger side went fine. Driver's side, the taps were alittle loose, but I thought I would test everything out.

    Well, when I went to turn the lights on, the driver's side truck and plow headlights blew out. Passenger side worked good. I checked the fuses in engine compartment...high and low beams for driver's side were out.

    So I went and got new fuses, put them in, un-attached the plow, and truck lights work fine now (high and low no problem). But when I throw in-cab switch for plow/truck lights, the truck lights stay on the whole time. Is it possible I blew a relay? I will go out and check in-line fuse, too.

    Is it possible the loose taps are causing a short circuit somewhere?

    I hope this is not too confusing.
     
  4. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    The turn signals and park light wires and their related wire taps have nothing to do with the head lights and/or how their switched.

    Sure sounds like the inline fuse in the red wire going to the battery (underhood) is also blown.

    Do you have an install manual for this thing to reference to? I suspect you don't as you shouldn't be having this much trouble. These Boss's are a piece of cake to wire....:nod:
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  5. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    BB, I just checked the in-line fuse (underhood)....not blown, still in tact. Also, there is power under dash to the wire that is tapped into hot ignition/ run. Which of the relay pack is for the lights?

    Why would the fuses for truck lights blow if all that I was messing with was the turn signal/ running lights? Yesterday, everything was working? hmmm....
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  6. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Three out of the four are for switching the lights...hi, low, and ground, which still leads me to believe that something isn't getting the power that it should be since even if only one of the three relays trip when you flip the switch the truck lights will still go out like they should.
    What exactly did you connect the red wire to under the hood to?

    And what exactly did you connect the red/black wire to inside the truck?
     
  7. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    Thanks for putting up with my ignorance of wiring, BB.

    Anyways, the red wire under the hood is attached to the side of the solenoid that the power from the battery is hooked to.

    The wire under the dash is hooked to a spot in the fuse block by your left foot. I used a volt meter to find a pin that is hot during run/ accy, which I also found on the Boss web site under technical issues. They have a page that suggests where to tap in, and I used their suggestion, after testing with a volt meter, of course.
     
  8. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    And even with the key in the RUN POSITION the lights still wont switch off when you flip the switch to the plow position?

    How about the small brown wire under the hood...what did you connect it to, and have you actually checked it for ground?

    Have you even tried the plow controller up to this point to see if it even trips the under hood pump solenoid when you press one of the functions?
     
  9. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    Thanks BB, for your help. Here is where I am at.....

    I got a schemtaic of the Boss web site and determined which relay is the trigger relay for the other 3. I put my volt meter on the red wire pin in the relay and read 11 volts. I put my volt meter in the pin on the relay for the red/black wire from the switched ignition tap under dash, and it read about 6 volts or so. Inspection revealed some corrosion which I attempted to clean off. The voltage went up but seems to bounce, probably due to the corrosion.

    I am able to turn truck lights on but when I switch to plow lites, truck lights stay on and plow lights are off. I replaced the relay with a known good one, jsut to see if that was the problem...still not working.

    I also tried voltmeter on the truck side connector pin that corresponds to the hi/ low beams on the plow lights. Read zero. For reference, I read the volts at the turn signal pin, and it read 12 volts. Does that help?

    Is it time for a new harness? lol.... it's been two days of this and I am pulling my hair out.

    Under hood in-line fuse is good, still reading 12 volts down stream from that....the fused ignition/ run (red/black wire) is hot when it should be.

    How about the possiblity that other relays may be bad and/or too corroded to work?

    Related question: how do you take the relays apart from each other...is there a trick to that?

    Thanks a million.
     
  10. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    You've got to get all the corrosion out of the relays and related sockets before you do anything else...BUT, what do you have the red/black wire connected to inside the truck supplying the 12V keyed power? If your using the mid-buss panel under the dash and connect to the incorrect pin it will cause these exact same issues with the head light relays...ie some voltage but not enough to do the job.

    No trick to pulling the relays.. just hold the socket and pull the relay out of the socket.
     
  11. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    Yes, BB, I have the black/red wire under dash connected to the "D" pin (according to Boss's diagram) on the mid BEC SEO box by driver's left foot. I believe I have it to pin D (upper leftmost pin), a 10 Amp circuit, suppossedly hot during accy/ run. Maybe I should change it?

    Here's hoping you agree:angel:

    I got that idea to connect it there from Boss's web site..their technical page referenced this spot, although when I pulled that panel on my truck, it did not seem to be the EXACT same as Boss's diagram. That is why I used my volt meter. It reads zero when truck is off, 12 volts in accy and run....? On the inside of the panel cover, the picture denotes the spot I have the red/black wire as "SEO 6-way blk", whatever that means.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2008
  12. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Ok it sounds like your keyed power source for your red/black wire is good.

    Couple more things to check:


    1) Do you have the relays sockets cleaned of corrosion now? They have to have good connection or your never going to get it working properly.

    2) What about the brown ground wire in the harness? Have you verified it has good ground? It is important as it not only grounds the under hood pump solenoid, but also all of the relays. Check it right at each of the 4 relays..this will 100% eliminate a relay grounding issue.

    3) When you flip the switch can you even hear ANY of the relays click? If you place a finger on each one and have a helper flip the switch you should be able to feel three of the four relays click when the switch is flipped. The fourth one should click as soon as you turn the key to the run position as this one is fed by your red/black 12V keyed ignition wire that powers the harness.

    4) As a test have you tried bypassing the light switch entirely? Those switches will die once in a while and cause the relays not to switch. You can disconnect the two black wires at the switch and jump them together as a test to bypass the switch.

    4) Lastly, does the under hood pump solenoid click when you operate the controller?
     
  13. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110


    1. I have cleaned the first trigger relay that has fused ignition power, although the other relays don't have much corrosion, just the first one. I am thinking of getting a new socket and relay and re-wiring just this one to start.

    2. Not sure how to check for ground, especially at each relay, but the one little brown wire is attatched right to neg. battery terminal and the other brown wire is to pump solenoid. All connections are tight and look clean. Should I touch a 12 volt source with one end of volt meter, and head of brown wire in relay with other end of volt meter to check for ground?

    3. When I flip the in-cab plow/truck light switch, I do not hear any clicking with ignition off. I think there might be clicking with ignition on, if I remeber correctly.

    4. Yes we tried by-passing truck/plow switch with no difference.

    5. The under hood solenoid works, the plow will lift/ turn...only lighting prob.
     
  14. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    If there's very little corrosion (100% positive of that?) I wouldn't cast off this harness just yet.

    Sounds like your brown ground is connected where it should be, but check it for ground right at the relays regardless. And yes your volt meter procedure is correct to check for ground.

    The first relay with the red/black wire should only click initially when the the key is turned on...as thats the only time it has power through the red/black wire from your keyed ignition source. The other three should click when you flip the light switch from truck to plow lights. You need to verify whether or not all three of the relays that control the lights are tripping when you flip the switch.You should be able to physically feel each relay click if you place your fingers on them as you flip the switch back and forth.



    If the UHS is working and the plow controller is working then the brown ground wire has to have ground AT LEAST UP TO THE UHS...but it could be broken/damaged further down the harness between the UHS and the relay pack so you still want to verify that you have ground at all the relays like previously mentioned.

    In fact, using the diagram, check all the terminals on all the relays to see if the power and ground are there when they should be. This will rule out a great deal of possibilities in one swoop.
     
  15. RichG53

    RichG53 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,135

    After you clean up the contact points put some Die-Electric grease on it to avoid future problems...When I transferd my plow over to a different truck every plug & connecter got Die-Electric grease put on them....
     
  16. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    OK....

    I cut the trigger relay socket out of the mix and put female spade bits on each wire and pushed them onto the appropriate pins of the relay. This is temporary to remove the corroded socket as a culprit.

    1. All brown grounds are good to each relay.

    2. First relay (trigger relay) only clicks when key is turned on and off (like it should).

    3. Other 3 relays only click when key is on and plow/ truck light switch is thrown. If key is off, the other 3 relays do not click.

    4. Truck lights still stay on while throwing plow/ truck light switch on and off. Still no plow lights.

    I'm goin nuts. :dizzy:
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  17. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    Continuing the saga....

    BB, I checked each relay wire...and with the truck running, truck lights on, I get a reading of 0 volts with my meter...I checked each relay pin on each relay...it would seem that a few of the pins would have 12 volts, no?

    I checked the reds, the whites and the blues at the relays...zilch. Same thing when I switch the truck/ plow light switch in cab...still reading zero at all pins, plus truck lights stay on, still no plow lights.

    The trigger relay reads properly....12 volts at red wire, 12 volts at red/black wire with key on...and it clicks when key is turned on and off.

    Again...I'm goin nuts here :gunsfiring:
     
  18. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Wiring troubles will usually do that to you. :)
     
  19. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Something is wrong with your testing methods because with the switch in the truck light position and the head lights turned on on low beam, at least the blue and red wires on the second relay over from you trigger relay have to have power since they're simply inline with the truck headlight wiring.

    Only other way its possible that the red and blues are dead at the relays but the head lights on the truck still work is if you don't even have the head light adapters tee'd into the truck harness between the original light harness and the trucks head lights. :confused:

    In simple words, if the truck lights work fine, then the blue and red wires at the realys HAVE to have 12V...or else the truck lights wouldn't work on low beam.
     
  20. sabres07

    sabres07 Senior Member
    from buffalo
    Messages: 110

    Thanks for sticking with me, BB....it's really helping.

    I tested at every pin on every relay, like I said, and got zero volts...all while truck was running and I THINK low beams were on...or maybe it was DRL's. I guess with DRL's on there would be no reading at the red, white or blue wires at the relay. I'm getting a little confused...but I will make sure to test them again with headlight switch on.

    As far as having the adaptors backwards, this did occur to me and I looked it over. I can't imagine having the harness T's backwards because the lights on the plow did work at one point, including the high beams on the plow. The trouble was that the truck lites were on at the same time and when I switched to high beams, it blew the truck fuses for the left side highs and lows.

    The fact that I was getting zero readings on the relay pins was baffling me...I tried it numerous times...double checking my work.

    I am getting close to chucking this harness for a new one.

    I also thought of extending every relay wire from the harness in the engine compartment into the cab and re-wiring with new relays. This way it is out of the weather and salt etc etc......what do you think?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008