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sticky spool poppet valve

Discussion in 'Western Plows Discussion' started by jimmyjam, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    Hi fellas, I'm back being a pest about this pesky sticky spool. Couple weeks back, asked about chattering when angling left, but only while plow was lifted. Diagnosed to sticky spool. The fix lasted for about 10 minutes. Took the spool out again, put it back, fixed lasted about 2 angles. Now when I take it out and put it back, it has no effect and there is a constant chatter when angling left. Guys suggested replacing spool, which I plan on doing. It's only like $28 for the poppet valve kit, but just wanted to check again to make sure there couldn't be another problem which is causing it to stick such as the cartridge upon which the spool looks like it rests against. When I look inside the unit with a flashlight it does look like the inside may be just a bit peened - or is that not a possibility? Thanks so much for past and future help!!
     
  2. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    what kind of plow are you talking about???
     
  3. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    oops, sorry. western unimount with isarmatic
     
  4. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    From what I just read from your post, you had or have a problem angeling left, when the plow was lifted?

    There are two S valves
    S2 control the left angle
    S2 and S3 control the lift

    Did you take out both of the S valves? If so which one of the S valves is having a spooling problem?

    If the cartridge valve spool is stuck or the travel is restricted, then replace the valve instead of trying to repair the valve.

    As for the poppet check valve, it may not be opening properly

    Here is a diagram for the valve
    pvalve333.jpg

    OMG mrpoppyvalve.jpg

    pvalve333.jpg

    OMG mrpoppyvalve.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  5. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    I believe the problem is with the spool portion. The first time I removed it and put it back in, I was able to angle left with no chatter for about 10 minutes of use, before it began again. I guess I just wanted to make sure that the reason it may be sticking is because of the spool itself and not where it seats itself inside. I checked the spool over several times and really can't see any damage or problems that would be causing it to stick. Thanks again.
     
  6. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    Remove what?

    test sssss  spooling.jpg

    test sssss  spooling.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  7. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    Specifically the spool, but I removed all portions of the poppet valve
     
  8. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    I am talking about the S valve S2 valve, angle left...........
     
  9. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    sorry, which is the S2 valve. i don't see it on the diagram? can you tell I am not all that well versed in this stuff? sorry about that
     
  10. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    Post #4, 3way valve
     
  11. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    ok, thanks very much. No, I haven't pulled that one out. only the poppet check valve items, and when I did and put them back in, it seemed to be ok for about 10 minutes, so that is why i thought i was on the right track, but maybe not
     
  12. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    if you feel that the problem, look at post#4 again and check the poppet valve (poppet check valve inspection) to make sure it is seating properly
     
  13. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    i have pulled the poppet check valves several times and it helped the first time but not since. trying to figure out if thats what i need to replace or should I be looking a the 3 way valve too? also don't really know how to tell if any of these things are bad.
     
  14. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    Test in post #6 will help you determine if the valve is good or bad..

    Post #4 tell you what to look for...

    When you pull the poppet valve, did you check inside the hole to make sure there was nothing restricting the flow of fluid??

    If you feel safe, replace the poppet valve...
     
  15. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    Thanks very much for your assistance and for you patience. I have pulled the poppet valve assembly several times, and as mentioned, the first time I did so, the spool portion (as shown on the diagram on post #4 under the poppet check valve inspection) was quite tight and took a bit of doing to remove (this may be normal). When I put all the parts back in there was no chatter when angling left several times, so that's why I figured this was the root of the problem. However, the next day the chatter returned, so I removed the parts again and the chatter was gone again, but only for about 3 tries at left angling. I have since removed the poppet valve assembly several more times but the chatter does not go away at all. So I guess what I am trying to figure out is if it really is the poppet valve assembly that is causing this (based upon it clearing the chatter for a while after the first fix or if I need to move on to maybe the 3 way valve you mentioned above. Sorry for being a pest and thanks again
     
  16. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    Take the S valve out and do the test...If it passes, you know the valve is not acting up..

    As for the poppet valve, in post #4, read #4 (poppet inspection) very carefully..I believe your missing something..

    Once again if you feel safe, replace the poppet valve if you think it is bad..the poppet could make the plow blade chatter if worn or defected..That is possible....
     
  17. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    Thank you again. Now something new and weird to report. Snow last night. Warmed up truck for 10 minutes and then plowed for about first 5 minutes or so before needing to angle left. When I did so, no chatter at all. Angle left a couple more times over the next 15 minutes and no chatter. Does this help diagnose? Thought maybe it was because truck had warmed up and may have warmed the pump, but the angle problem goes back to fall when I was getting plow set up, changing fluid, etc. when it was still warm outside. Thanks again.
     
  18. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    Didn't know you change the fluid. You never mention that at all..

    When you did change the fluid, you did move the plow manually to get all the air out of the rams?

    You did remove the motor and check the suction filter and remove it from the pump to make sure it was clean?

    You did clean out the inside of the pump housing before you added clean fluid?

    Probably what happen,if you didn't do the above, you might of got air and foreign material stuck in the valve and it work it way out.

    Keep working the plow and see what happens...
     
  19. jimmyjam

    jimmyjam Junior Member
    Messages: 25

    Sorry for taking so long to reply - was out of town for a few days.

    I did get the air out of the rams, but unfortunately, I did not remove the motor to check the suction filter and didn't clean out the inside of the pump housing. I have never done those things before - have always just followed the instructions in the owner's manual. Tried the plow this morning right after starting it up and the chatter is there again. Quite frustrating. Thanks for all your help
     
  20. twinman326

    twinman326 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,683

    jimmyjam;

    You will never believe this..Yesterday while I was plow I was doing a driveway that was fairly long. Now I have 20 more customers to do and a big complex to finish. Going on to my next customer my plow start to act up..I move the plow to the left,nothing.. I have up, down, right, but no left. S2, control the right and raise. S3 controls the right and left. (weird right). So I am trying to get this plow to go left..Kept going up, slamming down. right..Kept this up for 20mins..Then I move the stick to the left, it start to chatter real slow to the left..Just kept on doing this..Instead of a 2-4sec the most to go from right to left, it took 15sec to go to the left..I finally finish my customers and took the plow home.

    Today I want to know what happen and why this plow does not want to turn left..I did everything I told you to do.I check the screen, flush the system (because a friend of mine who install western plow and repairs them) first made a statement they are junk, then said you have moisture in the pump), the screen, swing the blade for any air, change the fluid, clean the plugs, remove all the valves, test them, test the coils, change the controller, even check the wires on the solenoid, and even test the solenoid..I DID IT ALL..

    I sat back and clear my head. I kept on thinking about your problem, so I took out the poppet valve and I am looking inside (side of the manifold. You have two, on top, and one on the side) and I see the top of the spring sitting sideway. I said what the heck. Took it out and bang, the spring was broken, not allowing the valve to move the direction of it path. (here the pics)
    side valve broken.jpg
    side pop valve spring.jpg

    In post # 4, you have information on the poppet valve..What is doesn't say, "if the poppet valve malfunction, you will loose control of the plow swing movement. That what Western lack, information. Just like a computer operation system, the blue screen.. Gives you numbers with very very little information..

    pop information.jpg

    Here what I am going to tell you, Change the poppet valve.Change both of them..Also check your both of your "cushion valves". I did, and on the driver side cushion, I found some foreign material, and a little rust on the shaft.. That what I am going to tell you to do......

    pop information.jpg

    side pop valve spring.jpg

    side valve broken.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011