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spread in pay from labor to drivers?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Ramairfreak98ss, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,905

    I see companies offering $20 for inexperienced/no exp. labor and $25 for truck drivers?

    I see some at $30 for drivers and $10+ for labor..

    We've always paid $15/hr for shovelers, but some arn't worth 2 cents, can't even listen, just aggravation when i'm trying to keep the good workers peace between them and the moron we just hired :(

    Ive had other guys shovel, snow blow, help out whenever needed, prompt to show up, work any hours etc, and we'd give them a bonus or i just pay them more per hour, its honestly worth it.

    Same goes for guys in trucks, some take 2hrs plowing a 20m account, have to let them go after the first storm or two, and others darn good and worth $30+ hr easily.
     
  2. jhall22guitar

    jhall22guitar PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,044

    Im confused as to what you're looking for advice on I am assuming?

    But, you could offer everyone a base pay for their job, or if you have some shovelers that are better than others make them the crew leader? You could say labor starting at $15 an hour (pay the good guys more).

    Same for plow guys, I don't see a problem with that, and it encourages guys to perform to your standards.
     
  3. Defcon 5

    Defcon 5 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,706




    Just another Ramair Rant....... Don't get him started on Nationals......:dizzy:
     
  4. jbsplow

    jbsplow Senior Member
    from -
    Messages: 125

    if u want good workers you gotta pay. I pay a shoveler 25$ hr and the other guy in my other truck 30$. and that's cash no payroll bs. I've learned the hard way. u pay ppl 10-15 a hour that's what kind of person you get. Show up one storm, wont awnser next snow storm. OR do sloppy jobs. Me and a buddy do concrete on the side and he pays all the finishers 40.00-50.00 hour cash. IF we don't get the job for to high of a price than its not worth are time. but we also do high end stamped work and don't advertise at all just word of mouth.. We used to pay the guys 15-25 but then they would always be late or never show. or if they did come in theyd be worth a ****.. you get the point
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  5. ponyboy

    ponyboy Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    Cash no pay roll bs
    Sounds like a great company
    Sound like another illegally ran company
     
  6. JMHConstruction

    JMHConstruction PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,084

    I pay em what their worth. I tell every new guy it's 12/hr to shovel, and explain what kind of conditions it will be before hand. I explain to them that I will give raises for the first storm depending on how hard they work. I've had guys that I don't call back after the first storm and pay the $12 and I've had others where I'll give them $20/hr after seeing them haul a$$ for 8 hours in the cold. I also give bonuses if we finish extra fast. I make my money, and if they work hard for me they make theirs too. I don't bother with the worthless, if they need to go within the first hour they're gone. Too much money, and more importantly my reputation on the line to deal with the guys who show up late and don't want to work.
     
  7. jbsplow

    jbsplow Senior Member
    from -
    Messages: 125

    I'm just a small operation buddy. 3 trucks and 2 shovelers. Mostly resi. To be honest with you most company's around here have a lot of employees who just plow when there off for the winter season from there regular job. I plowed for 3 years making 20-25 hour cash for a guy that had 18 trucks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  8. Buswell Forest

    Buswell Forest PlowSite.com Addict
    from NH
    Messages: 1,668

    My guy gets $20 per hour cash to drive my truck. Coffee and food is on me too.
     
  9. JMHConstruction

    JMHConstruction PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,084

    With cash, I assume he is not on your payroll or insurance. What happens if something happens? I don't think your insurance would cover it if they found out "some guy" was driving your commercial vehicle around clearing properties if he crashed it.
     
  10. Buswell Forest

    Buswell Forest PlowSite.com Addict
    from NH
    Messages: 1,668

    He is careful. I am the guy who crashes.
     
  11. jbsplow

    jbsplow Senior Member
    from -
    Messages: 125

    There are very simple ways around that lol. You think everyone reports the books honestly in this biz?? Nd I'm usually the one who crashes also
     
  12. Whiffyspark

    Whiffyspark 2000 Club Member
    from SOMD
    Messages: 2,402

    Am I the only person who think those numbers are way low. I mean $12 an hour? Would you shovel sidewalks for $12 an hour in 20 degrees weather yourself?
     
  13. JMHConstruction

    JMHConstruction PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,084

    That is only for paperwork before I see them work, and see how they do when I call them at 3 am to work. They all understand that. If they show up and work hard they will make more. Most guys make $15-18 even during the first storm, I do after all write the checks. I still have to run a business, if they want to get rich cleaning snow, then by all means, start your own business.

    As for you guys who believe nothing will happen to you guys behind the wheel. For you and everyone involved, I hope he doesn't slide and hit someone with that plow at 2 am and plenty of witnesses.
     
  14. Buswell Forest

    Buswell Forest PlowSite.com Addict
    from NH
    Messages: 1,668

    There isn't enough money in it to go legit. I can't pay $4k a year in workmans comp, $1500 worth of additional insurance, truck payment, truck fuel, truck insurance, and payroll for a guy who makes me $1500 a storm.
     
  15. jbsplow

    jbsplow Senior Member
    from -
    Messages: 125

    Couldn't agree more with what you just said
     
  16. jbsplow

    jbsplow Senior Member
    from -
    Messages: 125

    how big would you consider yourself. how many employees do you have
     
  17. JMHConstruction

    JMHConstruction PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,084

    I'm very small. I have 1 guy in the summer and 4 in the winter for snow. I don't profit much in snow , but it pays my overhead so I don't go in the hole for those months and I make enough to pay my bills at home. I also don't have plow trucks. For a financial point of view I completely understand where you're coming from, but I also wouldn't want to risk my company and my family's income on one accident. This is just my 2 cents, I don't run your company. The snow in my area isn't enough for a company as small as mine to invest in a ton of equipment. Yes I would bring in more income for the business, but that means more payroll, so higher insurance rates.
     
  18. JMHConstruction

    JMHConstruction PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,084

    If it works for you, I'm not trying to argue with you. Maybe I'm too worried about things. I just know I work too hard for the little I do have to risk not being fully covered. I'm no snow removal expert by any means. I do know that if someone slips while we're out shoveling and hits their head, I can't afford to pay them out of pocket to go to the hospital. This is also coming from the guy who was worried for way too long about starting a business and walking away from a guaranteed paycheck.
     
  19. Buswell Forest

    Buswell Forest PlowSite.com Addict
    from NH
    Messages: 1,668

    It is so damned expensive and time consuming to go 100% legitimate and above board, I really don't know how a small self employed guy actually pulls it off. If I could, without going broke, and without starving, I surely would. And if I did actually drop 10k over what I already spend to be "legal and insured to the hilt".....one rainy season or one major breakdown would sink me.
    Right now, nobody in N.H. or Western Maine can get rid of pine pulp. The market dried up.
    That started a cascade effect. Now every market for all types of wood is getting tighter by the day..
    None of it is within my control...so right now, I am some dang happy I don't have a 9k workmans comp bill in the mail.
     
  20. JMHConstruction

    JMHConstruction PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,084

    Up north you guys get more snow than we do. Where you go out more often, the few times we go out, we bring in more money (this is all assumptions from reading on plowsite). For my sidewalk crew I bring in around 200/hr if we move at a "normal" speed to many guys out here. If we haul a$$ and get an 8 hour route done in 6 hours I get around 270 an hour. Most of my guys want to go home, so go balls to the wall. I can pay them 17-20 an hour and still make almost 200 for the company an hour. A few storms a month pays for my insurance and expenses and a little profit. Only down side is we only get about 10 storms a winter with an out 20" annually. I don't get rich, but everything is paid for. On the opposite end, if we're slow or get hit by a huge storm it's not too good. That is why I'm so hard and picky on the guys I get. If they're not fast, they only get 12-13/hr. It's up to them if they want to come back. If they are horible I just send them on their way.

    Also will add, because we don't get much snow, my added payroll doesn't go up too much. This also saves me money with insurance. I don't think my insurance is as much as yours either. $1500 for com auto, ~ $10K work comp, and ~ $750 for GL, this is for all year. Other than insurance I don't have much overhead. As long as I can make a little less than $15k for overhead a year I'm good. That's less than $1500 a month. I'm sure different locations and business are different though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015