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Sodium free salt?

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Grunt0311, Jan 29, 2006.

  1. Grunt0311

    Grunt0311 Member
    Messages: 79

    I don't do much salting, but I had a friend ask me if I knew where he could get salt that was sodium free. Apparently, he picked up a contract that stipulates he can only use sodium free salt due to the new concrete. Have you guys heard of this? If so, what is it called, and where can he get it? Any info is appreciated!
     
  2. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    ??? That would be kind of hard to do since salt is part Sodium. Sodium is chemically defined as Na. Salt is NaCl (Sodium Chloride). You can have Sodium as a fundamental element without having salt, but you can't have salt without Sodium. Are you sure the potential customer isn't confusing treated salt? Treating salt with some products will result in it being less corrosive.

    Your friend needs to first do a little research to familiarize himself with salt, treated salt and other snow/ice melting products. Then he can have a talk with his customer who doesn't really know what they want.
     
  3. pbeering

    pbeering Senior Member
    Messages: 266

    He will have to use calcium chloride, one or another of the acetates, or a liquid like Magic-O. He'll need to educate the customer about the higher costs of these products.
     
  4. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 8,518

    Magnesium chloride?
     
  5. dumper

    dumper Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    Maybe he misunderstood, and

    contract said sodium free deicing material?????

    Than again, why would he sign a contract, which means he agreed to a price, before he knew what was required?????

    Something does not sound right.
     
  6. Grunt0311

    Grunt0311 Member
    Messages: 79

    Okay, I just talked to my friend. He didn't sign any contract yet. The place is still being built, and he has an "in" for getting the plowing contract. He clarified that it was not no Sodium, but rather low Chloride. It was new to him, and I talked you guys up to him telling him that I know a bunch of guys with a lot more experience than I have :drinkup: . Any ideas?
     
  7. GSE

    GSE Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    I'd be scratching my head wondering why someone would be coming to me in January to talk about a winter management contract. Sounds like they either don't like their current contract, or they screwed him and now need someone else. I'd tread lightly....
     
  8. Five Star Lawn Care LLC

    Five Star Lawn Care LLC Senior Member
    Messages: 426

    you will have to use a 3 way product like Ice devel, dragon melt, ect


    there most likely calling for a low sodium content, sounds more like it

    with most new concrete they will suggest this

    just make sure that they are aware that this method will cost them likely 4-5x the ammount of NaCl....its a huge expense but ihey more $ for you

    we had a restriction like this on one of our properties last year on a new concrete loading dock at one of our contracts
     
  9. Grunt0311

    Grunt0311 Member
    Messages: 79

    Apparently you didn't see the part about the place is still being built huh!:cool:
     
  10. Grunt0311

    Grunt0311 Member
    Messages: 79

    Thanks Fivestar! I will let him know:salute:
     
  11. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,857

    Reading comprehension isn't always required. :rolleyes:

    Have him call Michigan Turf & Ornamental in Hudsonville. They are the distributors for Caliber and also can get Extreme Melt-salt treated with Caliber.

    There is also CMA, Potassium acetate, urea and a few others that I can't remember right now.

    FYI, salt does not chemically attack concrete. Freeze\thaw is what damages concrete.
     
  12. RSheaLand

    RSheaLand Member
    Messages: 32

    I dont know if you have a Lesco in Michigan but they have Lesco Melt II which is concrete friendly. We have been using it on our propertys that have concrete walks, both new and old, for 4 years now with no problems.
     
  13. Five Star Lawn Care LLC

    Five Star Lawn Care LLC Senior Member
    Messages: 426

    I tried Lesco Melt II first thing this season b/c of it no sodium content we were hoping to reduce our plant life damage on our walkways...but i found due to the no sodium content that we were just not getting a very timely melt and with our high risk clients that just wasnt going to cut it so we were forced back to tri-blends

    Something to take into consideration
     
  14. purpleranger519

    purpleranger519 Senior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 536

    There is a company called ice away and I get mine through the same disributor I get my fertilizer from and they are national their name is Lesco, http://www.lesco.com/
     
  15. purpleranger519

    purpleranger519 Senior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 536

    FYI>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Ice Melt
    When it comes to faster ice melting products as compared to the standard salt products, LESCO offers a unique selection of the best ice melting products in the industry based on a high magnesium chloride content, which works at lower temperatures than the typical snow and ice salt melting products. In addition, these products reduce damage to cured concrete surfaces including sidewalks and driveways. The other major benefit which makes the LESCO snow and ice melting products the best ice melting products in the industry is the increased safety around turf and landscaped areas because of the reduced usage of sodum chloride.

    LESCOMelt
    LESCOMelt is a high quality de-icing product with fast, effective ice melt performance at low temperatures, designed for efficient ice melting power with improved safety for both concrete and turf areas.
    Lowest Melting Temp (F): 0
    Sodium Chloride (Salt): Low
    Available Bag Size (lbs): 50

    As low as: $14.97

    LESCOMelt II
    LESCOMelt II premium de-icing product with fast, effective ice melt performance at low temperatures, is designed to be your best choice for ice melting power and maximum safety for both concrete and turf areas.
    Lowest Melting Temp (F): 0
    Sodium Chloride (Salt): None
    Available Bag Size (lbs): 50

    As low as: $18.21

    Magnesium Chloride
    100% Magnesium Chloride Ice Melter
    Lowest Melting Temp (F): 0
    Sodium Chloride (Salt): None
    Available Bag Size (lbs): 50

    As low as: $22.52

    Rock Salt
    100% Sodium Chloride Ice Melter
    Lowest Melting Temp (F): 20
    Sodium Chloride (Salt): High
    Available Bag Size (lbs): 50, 80
    Available State: CT, DE, IA, IL, IN, KS, KY, MA, MD, ME, MI, MO, NE, NH, NJ, NY, OH, PA, RI, TN, VA, WI, WV

    As low as: $4.10
     
  16. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,857

    I feel like I just walked into a Lesco commercial in production. :confused:
     
  17. plowed

    plowed Senior Member
    Messages: 344

    I don't think I've ever heard one positive thing about anyone buying anything from Lesco. Guys who buy expensive machines ($3k, 4k 5k+) from them, then Lesco wants to charge them another $100 for an owner's manual. :dizzy:
     
  18. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,857

    We bought a ferilizer spreader from them, the service was OK, but we also have a good relationship with the branch manager. The spreader itself is a different story.

    But like you stated, I haven't heard any overwhelming positive comments on their ice melter products. The majority of comments have been negative.

    Just as an aside, does anybody realize that salt does not attack concrete chemically? Meaning, salt will not damage new concrete, if it is air entrained and properly installed to begin with?
     
  19. Andy N.

    Andy N. Senior Member
    Messages: 236

    yah, but good luck with that.
     
  20. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,857

    It all comes down to educating the customer again. People are always told that it is the salt that is causing damage to concrete, when it isn't. So when it does fall apart or start to spall, we are the ones who are blamed immediately. But it isn't the de-icers we are applying.

    Improper installation and formulation of the concrete can result in spalling, so it doesn't always mean that spalling concrete is our fault.

    The freeze\thaw cycle can damage it, but salt does not harm concrete.