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sodium , calcium or potassium

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by mountain, Nov 18, 2000.

  1. mountain

    mountain PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 23

    what does everybody use ? is one any better them the other I have been using potassium cloride from the few customers that require ice melt just because that is the only product that our supplier carries.
  2. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    Sodium Chloride is Rock Salt, right?

    That's what we use on ALL our parking lots and 75% of our sidewalks. A few walkways we use calcium chloride.

    The potassium and calcium chloride are less corrosive, work at lower temperatures and don't leave "salt" stains. But they're more $.
  3. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    We used to use calcium, but customers didnt like the greasy residue left behind, so we now use a coated salt that works much like calicium and down to the lower temps, yet is 100% enviro friendly.
  4. SlimJim Z71

    SlimJim Z71 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,031

    What is this "Magic Salt" that everyone keeps talking about? I've heard people talking about coated salt, and also stuff that you can buy to coat the salt yourself. Can someone fill me in?
  5. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    Please do a search, if I have to listen to Dino's magic speel one more time I'm going to going to commit hairy carry.Wait let me do it, Magic is the only ice melting product that is safe for grass,bushes,shrubs, concrete, wood, paint,plastic,steel ,aluminum,paper,it can even be served as punch at parties.It will melt ice at tempatures only found on pluto,and has the potential to melt four feet of snow.You can buy it alot of places all of which Dino can give you directions to,it could be the most amazing product known to man it might even cure cancer,testings just not done yet.
  6. SlimJim Z71

    SlimJim Z71 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,031

    I'm just guessing... but I think I hit a nerve.
  7. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Hey Digger, lighten up will ya! The Class Clown act is starting to wear a little thin.
  8. mountain

    mountain PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 23

    do you use rock salt on the lots because its cheaper or does it do a better job? I signed a couple parking lots for this winter and didn't want to stock two different products . would I get a good result spreading the potassium , that we already stock for our walks , on the lots?
  9. slingshot

    slingshot Junior Member
    Messages: 21

    Yes digger you sound like a little baby. if you dont like what dino post just dont read it. but to tell you the truth i think dino's post are the best ones to read . you cant say he doesnt know the snow and ice biz. he runs his biz like a pro the way it should be. and i bet there is not to many questions he could not answer if you asked him. plus he is a hell of a nice guy. he would go far out of his way to help anyone he could if you asked him. i have never met him and only talked on the phone a couple of times but he sure helped me out and steered me in the right direction. i e mailed him over the summer to ask him a question and befor i knew it he was calling long distance to my home and did not stop calling till he got a hold of me . he answered all my questions and and gave me alot of good advice. so digger if you are trying to get everyone against dino i dont think it will work being he probarbly helped everyone on this forum at one time or another, thanks dino remember mark from scranton........
  10. n y snow pros

    n y snow pros Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    To answer your question Slimjim,which Diggerman did a fair job of answering.The product Magic is a combination of mag chloride and distilled solids from beer or vodka to put it simply.When this liquid is sprayed on salt it makes the salt about 95%less corrosive and brings the effective working temperature of salt down to about 35o below zero.Salt usually will only work to about 18o and then anything colder and its useless.Some of the side benifits of this product are that it eats rust and is activated by ground temperature not air temp like other ice meltors.The difference being that products like calcium need to pull moisture out of the atmosphere to create heat which in turn creates the melting action.The bad part is 2 fold.1st the surface calcium is being used on lets say concrete,is forced to go through repeated freeze thaw cycles do to the heat the calcium creates which will spauld and crack concrete.2nd the 1/2 used bag of ice melter has now turned hard as a rock because it has been exposed to the air where it is sucking up moisture.Magic doesnt have this problem because it is activated by ground temperture and humidity.The rise and fall of these 2 will cause Magic to react.Magic also has the benifit of a residual effect so that after a storm the remaining product will go into the pavement and react later in the season for the next storm.This in turn will give you more time before your sanders will have to go out to treat the road surface.Magic is safe to your landscaping,steel,pavement,concrete and asphalt and will not leave any visable signs after a storm like the white coating salt leaves.If you have any more questions please feel free to call me if you like.
    John Parker 845-485-4200
  11. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011

    I use sand/salt mix on my lots, $30/ton fob. For sidewalks I use a mix of potassium, calcium, sodium, sand. Lesco sells one formula but I get the generic for $7/50lb bag.
  12. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Ok, in life I try to act as the middle man, who is friends with everyone. So my response here is pretty much how I would react in person.

    Digger I don't know what is wrong with Dino talking about Magic salt, or any other product, ie Urethane cutting edges. Only so what, he speeks the truth on the these products, and they have helped some members on this board.

    Yes, I will admit that sometimes, I thought they were over discussed on and pushed on some users. However, I believe these products are proven and really do produce the results that have been posted. In the end when I thought about it, I said so what if Dino makes a few bucks on the sale of magic salt and cutting edges.

    I think Dino, provides a lot of detailed post, providing information to many. I have never talked to him face to face or even over the phone, however he seams like the next door neighbor I wouldn't mind having (the only problem would be those evil GM trucks). However my nearest next door neighbor is 3 miles down the road.

    So basicly myself, I am old fashion. Still useing my sand and salt mix, as well as some pure salt, Just giving my customers what they want. I still run my noisy steel cutting edges. Only so what, it works for me, and like I have said to everyone time and time again, if it works run with it.

    So In Dino's Defence speak as much as ya want about Magic Salt and Edges.

    Digger, sorry to have to say this to a fellow Cat exevator owner, but cut Dino some slack.

    In the end we all have the same common goal, move the white stuff, and see how cool of a light show we can put on at night.


    [Edited by GeoffDiamond on 11-19-2000 at 03:29 AM]
  13. n y snow pros

    n y snow pros Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    I couldnt of said it better Geoff
  14. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011

    "I said so what if Dino makes a few bucks on the sale of magic salt and cutting edges."

    He's not making that much, I was quoted prices 50 per cent higher for a urethane edge from a truck equipment dealer close to me, and without any kind of guarantee.
  15. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    Boy everybody need to cut back on their caffinated coffee,Dino has been getting off way to easy lately,he hasn't had to delete one of my posts.Just having a little fun at Dino's expense,and I have never known Dino to need baby sitters so give it a rest.The site has a search function for a reason,it would be diff if it was a topic that was rarely talked about but I think there are more posts about magic than anything else.Dino I am sorry if this post offended you,now call off your dogs.Everyone else loosen your ties put up your feet and relax.
  16. John DiMartino

    John DiMartino PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,154

    We'll loosen our cuffs when you lighten up on Dino,Ive got my sleaves rolled up and Im ready to rumble LOL.
  17. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Salt vs. Temp

    Temp.(°F) 1 LB. of Salt Melts

    30° 46 lbs. of ice

    25° 14 1/2 lbs. of ice

    20° 8 1/2 lbs. of ice

    15° 6 1/2 lbs. of ice

    10° 5 lbs. of ice

    5° 4 lbs. of ice

    0° 3 1/2 lbs. of ice

    -6° 3 lbs. of ice

    You can clearly see how useless plain salt (Sodium Chloride or NaCl²) becomes as the temperature drops.


    [Edited by ChucksChevyPages on 11-19-2000 at 06:16 AM]
  18. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317


    Since this is a deicer thread...

    SOME of you may be sick of hearing about Magic. Here's a tidbit the <B>rest</B> of you may be interested in reading.

    “Parkway officials announced yesterday that the marvelous goo, which goes by the brand name Magic Minus Zero, will be their main weapon against highway icing this year.
    The New Jersey Highway Authority, which runs the Parkway, has agreed to buy $1.36 million worth of the stuff, which can be used in several ways. The authority's existing stockpile of 11,566 tons of rock salt will be run through a giant conveyer- driven machine that will mix it with the substance, not unlike coating popcorn with caramel. In addition, the state is buying 25,000 tons of salt already treated with the product, and Parkway officials also plan to try spraying the substance in its liquid form on the roadway to prevent freezing.”

    October 27, 2000 The Star Ledger (Newark, NJ)

    Looks like NJ will be joining it's NY neighbors using Magic, as well as Washington State.

    Here's some others who use Magic.


    I would guess that Magic works well, or else these Depts. wouldn't be using it, now would they?

    As far as discussing Magic, or Urethane, they are no different than any other product. We talk about Boss plows all the time too.... because they are good. The same goes for Magic and Urethane. We talk about Meyer plows all the time too, because to many here, they are lousy plows. We bring up the same subjects a lot is all I am saying. That's what discussion forums are for, discussing....

  19. jrblawncare

    jrblawncare Senior Member
    Messages: 121

    My 2 cents...Dino seems like a great guy,He has been a great help to me here and on the phone.also I think dig was just bust'em a little.I would love to give Magic a try,But can't get it near Me and I'am not to the point where I need a truck load yet.So...this year I will be using a potassium chloide base product called Ice Melt/Traction & will try Maxey melt{of course I will not need it as much as the rest of you guys north of me}.Do any of you know anything about Mountain Salt & Products Co.here in KY......They were a SIMA associate at one time.I have a chance to meet with them next week to see their products.Thanks
  20. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    FWIW dig, when you go on your little tirades, I just overlook them, you also have helped many people here, and you are a big GM fan, given diferent circumstances we might even be buds if we were neighbors. Of course then we would be each others competition and resort to grump old men (the movie) tactics to foil one anothers businesses.
    The one thing that I have done as of late so you dont have to read about the edges and ice melt so much, is just to let new people know there are products out there other than the norm and to do a search or email me off forum for details. I to get tired of writting the same things, maybe control c &v are the answer after all. Thank you to all the rest that said the kind things. Now why havent you all bought magic, urethane v plows and GM trucks?