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so i took some measurements....

Discussion in 'Fisher Engineering Discussion' started by tkrepairs, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. tkrepairs

    tkrepairs Senior Member
    from maine
    Messages: 186

    and i found out that the front end of my truck only drops 1/2" when i lift my plow off the ground. for some reason it feels like a lot more than that when im inside the truck. and it drops the 1/2" without the ballast in the back of the truck in the right spot (i typically run 8 60lb. bags of sand between the wheels, and now they are scattered in the bed, mostly under my toolbox). this doesnt seem typical for a 2002 chevy 2500HD. i would think with the truck being 6 years old, it would sag a bit more than just 1/2". what how much does everyone else's chevy/gmc go down? i have the 8' HD MM2 setup, which is approx. 777lbs.

    i would think with this setup i should be able to run a plow like the XLS or 9'6" X-V no problem?
     
  2. NICHOLS LANDSCA

    NICHOLS LANDSCA PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,302

    All 3 CCSB D/A 2500hd's drop exactly 1" w/9' Hiniker scoops. No timbrens, haven't touched the tbars.
     
  3. saabman

    saabman Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 70

    Weight over the rear axle is not an front end balast (although it will help you with traction). Balast should be as far toward the back of the bed as possible. Then the rear axle will start to transfer some of the weight off the front axle.
     
  4. TTA89

    TTA89 Member
    Messages: 36

    Mine drops 1 inch with an 8' X-Blade and 780lbs of Sand against the tailgate on my Extended Cab with Duramax. That was with the stock front end, I installed Timbrens this week but haven't hooked up the plow yet.

    The Front end bounces when the plow is raised or lowered, I'm hoping the Timbrens help with that a bit.
     
  5. stroker79

    stroker79 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,802

    mine is a 1/4 of an inch but AS the plow goes up it drops a good inch and a half at least. once the plow stops then im just 1/4 of an inch from stock. Thats probably why it feels like it sinks more than it measures out to be.
     
  6. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822

    Stroker 79, Just to let you know, I had to touch that little bug in your signiture to make sure that it wasn't a real one on my screen. lol
     
  7. tkrepairs

    tkrepairs Senior Member
    from maine
    Messages: 186

    i understand the principles of leverage and factoring in one or two pivot points, but as i see it, any weight added behind the front axle - the pivot point for the plow added in front of it - should act as ballast against it.

    so i guess what im saying is if you put the weight in front of or on top of the rear axle, it will pivot the plow upward, while added little weight to the front half of the truck as it is positioned close to the rear axle which will support most of it. putting weight behind the rear axle not only will help lift the plow up, possibly not as much as in front, but it will also take weight off the front axle.

    is the idea to lighten the load on the front axle? or to add traction to the rear? or just to raise the plow? my plow isnt really heavy compared to most others out there for this truck, its actually the smallest ive seen on this truck around here. im not really worried about the front end as it will need maintenance eventually like all other plow trucks, but i like the traction in the rear i get from the weight.
     
  8. saabman

    saabman Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 70

    Any mass placed behind the rear axle will have a multiplicative effect (the further back, the more effect) on weighting the rear axle as it "transfers" weight from the front. Think of what happens if you put too much tongue weight on a trailer hitch. Only in cartoons does it lift the front end, but in real life it can make the front end very much lighter (so much so that steering is dangerous). Where is all that weight that used to be on the front axle? It has moved to the rear axle. The counter point is when the plow make the truck nose down, it is relieving the rear end of weight (which hurts you rear wheel traction). Rear ballast is necessary to keep the weight transfer from moving forward.

    This same weight transfer happens in normal (and competitive) driving when the car nose dives in heavy braking. The back end gets very light (although only in a transient). Be ready for the back end to come around if you try to corner in this attitude.
     
  9. tkrepairs

    tkrepairs Senior Member
    from maine
    Messages: 186

    exactly what i was getting at... but what exactly is the point of the ballast? are we looking for more rear traction, less front weight, or keeping the plow higher off the ground? im not really worried about any of those with the setup i have, but what exactly is the purpose of the ballast? i dont think moving my weight back 18 inches is going to have a noticeable effect on the truck, and at that, i cant move all of it back, it wont fit. i need 30+ inches of space in the middle for snowblowers/whatever else people give me to fix at the end of the day.
     
  10. TTA89

    TTA89 Member
    Messages: 36

    I do it to keep the Front end up, keep weight of the front and as a side effect it gets better traction in 2wd. Although I plow in 4x4 99% of the time.
     
  11. tkrepairs

    tkrepairs Senior Member
    from maine
    Messages: 186

    i do it for traction and pushing power. i like the way the truck pushes snow when its loaded up, the extra weight really helps moving the heavy wet stuff. that and definately the extra traction. as far as the height of the plow, its pretty good with or without weight. definately dont need the extra lift, and it certainly doesnt help with cooling any. i was thinking if the plow was able to get a little higher in the air it would help suck some more from underneath.... wrong. i have to drop the plow down further now to keep cool. could be worse i guess...
     
  12. saabman

    saabman Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 70

    By the nature of "ballast" it is designed to offset something. In this case, front end weight. But it is a win-win, as the wieght moved from the front is carried on the read axle. You get MORE downforce on the rear axle the farther you put the ballast towards the rear.

    So you your front suspension is not abused and you get more pushing power from the back end of the truck. What is not to like??