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snowplow buying

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by a j, Oct 29, 2000.

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  1. a j

    a j Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    I am looking to buy a snowplow for a 1988 k1500 and was looking for input on what type I should be looking for. I manage an auto center and would use it to plow my lot and maybe one other small lot. Most place around here want to sell western, are there other options.(Meyers?) What about backdragging?? AS I have 6 bay doors and a wharehouse door to clear. My "plow" guy from last year is moving, thought if I do it myself I may save some money. Would appreciate any comments or insight from the "experts" who love plowing. thank you in advance for your help and comments.
     
  2. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    As far as backdragging, instead, back into each bay, and come out with the plow down. :)

    Of course you'll have to backdrag the warehouse door.

    As far as brands, well, just look at all the other threads about that. We have revisited the "brand" issue <B>A LOT</B>.

    Add an aux. trans cooler, and load boosters, no matter what plow you get.

    ~Chuck
     
  3. lawn girl

    lawn girl Junior Member
    Messages: 2

    Hello,
    If your truck is a 4x4 then you should check into the SNO-Way plow. It is light weight and made out of lexan. It has the down pressure system to allow you to scrape ice or to pull snow backwards. The web site is http://www.snoway.com

    God Bless,
    Lawn Girl
     
  4. slplow

    slplow PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 594

    If the dealers in your area mostly carry western, go with a western, because if it breaks down they are easier to get parts. I would also get the 7.5 pro plow just because they are better than the standard plow. Yes, they are a little bit heavier but your truck can take it. I have had great luck with a Western for the past four years, but if you have a boss plow dealer near you, go with the Boss because they are built even better. I own one of these as well. They are constructed a little better. I hope this help.
     
  5. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    I'd buy a used Western/Meyer for $8-900 if you're just doing those 2 lots. Probably quite a few out there for that truck, too.

    Chuck,
    Why do you need load boosters? The nice thing about those Chevys is you just turn up the torsion bars, that's what I do for my subs that run those, seems to work great.
     
  6. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Lazer,

    Because the front suspension has limited "travel" to begin with. Go measure the distance between the bump stop, and the steel it contacts with on the front end. You'll find it's about 2". Put a plow on, raise the plow, and it's 3/4" from making contact. Cranking up the torsion bars, alters the alignment when there is no weight on the truck (camber/caster) and can cause the tires to wear uneven in the off season. A "nameless" friend here tells me even with the load boosters, his front suspension bottoms out a lot with the plow raised.

    I put a Pro Plow on a friend's 93 Silverado 1500, and when he raised it, it <B>was</B> bottomed out. His bars were not cranked up though. Also, Western cautioned against mounting the Pro Plow on a 1/2 ton truck (too heavy). He had a problem with the plow scraping in the raised position when turning into driveways. So bad, that he wore the bolts holding the angle cylinders right down to the nuts, and wore into the nuts too. The bottom edges of the A frame were worn to a "point" at the back ends near where the plow mounted to the undercarriage.

    That's why I recommend any kind of a load booster on a torsion bar suspended truck. I'll stick with leaf springs thanks!

    ~Chuck
     
  7. a j

    a j Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    Where do the load boosters go?? What are they exactly??
     
  8. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Load boosters are rubber cylinders that are made to replace the stock bump stops on suspensions in trucks. So instead of solid rubber stops, you have a hollow rubber cone like piece of rubber that is progressive in strength. Mening that the more it is compressed, the more it will resist the weight being applied to it.
    Dino
     
  9. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    It's a 4 point suspension system. It doesn't ride EXACTLY plum up and down, but close.

    Plus it takes 5 minutes to turn them up or turn them down. One of my subs will turn his down if no snow is in the long-term forecast. Of course you wouldn't leave them turned up all summer!

    That Chevy front end (IMO) is the best on the market right now for plowing because of those 2 things:
    1.) Instantly adjustable front end height/suspension capacity to accomadate any/all plows.
    2.) CV joints in the front end are much more durable than U-joints and allow for tighter turning/greater maneauvarability.
     
  10. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    I can appreciate what you are saying about CV joints, but it haunts me that nothing heavy duty uses them. The same as nothing heavy duty uses torsion bars. I know the old Chryslers that used them (torsion bars) first were heavy "lead sleds", but nothing that is <B>really</B> heavy duty uses torsion bars or CV joints. Though front wheel drive cars do, but they have low GVW comparitively speaking.
    And the CV joints fail under hard use, the same as U joints do. Get a rip in a CV joint boot, and not repair it ASAP, and the joint will need to be replaced very soon after. At a much higher cost than a $20 U joint. Granted, this is MHO.


    As far as leaving torsion bars cranked up, many people think it's "OK" to do. Which we know is not the case.
    I'm glad you pointed out they should be cranked back down after the season if one chooses to crank them up for plowing. Hopefully newbies will read and learn from that.

    When I see CV joints on 4wd back hoes, and 5 yd dump trucks, and torsion bar suspensions on them, then I'll be convinced they are heavy duty.

    Aside from the Powerstroke diesel, I feel that the solid front axles and leaf spring suspensions are a major selling point of Ford's heavy duty truck line. Again MHO.

    ~Chuck
     
  11. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Aside from the Powerstroke diesel, I feel that the solid front axles and leaf spring suspensions are a major selling point of Ford's heavy duty truck line. Again MHO.


    Chuck you couldn't have said it better.

    However in my ford trucks F 350-F 550, I would really like to see:

    An alison trans (alison makes 4 of them that will fit the powerstroke) Only like i said a Ford trans will hold up fine, is used and maintained correctly

    Never had a trans failure on a ford pick up, only on one of my old ford L9000s i did blow a trans once.

    Now with this alison trans, a powerstroke with more power, not hard to do.

    Now with more power, a heavier duty transfer case.

    Take the rear end and drive shaft out of my F 650, fit it to the heavy duty transfer case, and alison trans, and bigger powerstroke.

    Then you would have one heck of a work truck.

    As hard as this is to say:

    I think chevy is on the right track with the alison trans, however I hear the engine may not be producing 300 HP after all. Only I think Chevy's weak link in this powertrain will be either the t-case,drive shafts, or rearends. If chevy didn't up grade those components, and I don't know if they did or not. Then i believe you will see other drive train problems, if you stick that much hp, on a standard rearend, something going to give. What gives won't be the trans, it will be something else down the line.

    BTW you can get a powerstroke with 275 HP now, the trouble is it's only aviable with the six speed. However I bet the powerstroke will now be a more respected engine in the F 650s and F 750s.

    Geoff
     
  12. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    Geoff,
    The 01 GM HD has a Spicer 11.25 rear axle.
     
  13. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    BTW,
    That DuraMax 6.6 (Isuzu) diesel is SO superior to the PowerStroke and 5.9 Cummins that many folks will buy GM just to get it.

    Things like common-rail injection and fractured rod techology make this the quietest, highest-revving, longest lasting (we'll see) deisel ever offered in a pick-up. Accelerates like a gas, pulls and lasts like a diesel.
     
  14. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    In fact the 6.6 is so superior that the new 6.0 powerjoke is a blantant copy of it, right down to the aluminum heads.
    GM did a power launch tour for the new HD 2500/3500 and the IFS was the only suspension that was able to go through the washboard section in 2wd. the new rear axel locker worked so well, added to the IFS front and 3 wheels were always in contact with the ground. With the dodge and ford, most times only 1 was touching, and 4wd was needed to finish the course even with a limited slip rear axel differential.
    The 6.6 will have 300 hp, and 520 ft#.
    And chuck there is a very heavy duty truck out there that uses IFS front and rear with torsion bars. I cant remember who makes it, but it is a military application.
    The major mags are releasing their tests of the new gm's right now, and all are saying that gm just raised the bar, and jumped years ahead of the competition with the new line up. Time will tell.
    Dino
     
  15. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    Dino,
    Let's not start agreeing now. Next thing you know I'll be singing the praises of urethane cutting edges!
     
  16. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Trust me lazer by the end of the first storm you WILL be praising the urethane god that I worship. To qoute John Allin, CAN I GET AN AMEN.When it comes to GM we have to all agree that they are king.
    Dino

    [Edited by plowking35 on 10-31-2000 at 01:34 AM]
     
  17. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    I won't agree that GM is the King.

    I want to see how these new trucks really stand up. After the first or second year of production, I think we will all know more about them.

    However the Powerstroke, or as Dino calls them (because he is a 2 year old), powerjokes, are proven motors. The problem between powerstrokes and Ford trucks, is Ford hasn't figured out after 10 plus years, how to make the international engine perform in a Ford truck, they currently make the engine only work in a Ford truck. If Ford improved their electronics, and their trannys, they could boost the powerstrokes power.

    So far nothing but good luck with my Fords. I will also admitt, I had 2 or 3 older GMCs that could take some use and abuse. 88 GMC 1500 4.3 v6 with 9' fisher, talk about use and abuse, and two gmc dumps can't remember the model but they were equal to a Ford F 650.

    Geoff
     
  18. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    The Hummer you might think uses CV joints. It uses coil springs, not torsion bars. It also is a technological marvel. Inflate and deflate tires with the flick of a switch. Super high ground clearence, a wide stance, and low center of gravity. Then again, it's the replacement for the Blazer. A good one too.

    Oh, and the Hummer is a GM product in some ways, it had the GM 6.2 diesel in it. It's produced by AM General. Now you made me dig out the road test and spec sheet from Nov. 1982 Off Road magazine....

    AM General was owned by American Motors then.

    The Hummer only has a GVWR of 7,900 lbs. Empty it weighs 5,100 lbs. The axles use half shafts like a Corvette, with U joints though.

    They did another test in March of 1985, when the Hummer went into mass production. Back in 82, it was a prototype only.

    ~Chuck
     
  19. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Dino,

    When I start my new civilian job with the US Army next month, I'll let you know if anything has CV joints and torsion bars. I can't wait to visit the motorpool! Already saw the fleet of Hummers and 6x6's.

    ~Chuck
     
  20. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Geoff you and I both know the PS is a good engine, but it is loud and far from smooth. The new 6.0 will adress those issues. It will run a long time, however ford has never had a stout enough tranny behind them, manual or auto. the exception being the newer 6 sp, and even then the flywheels still have some issues. Untill they can get an allison tranny, no auto they put behind it will last, that is why the 275hp is only available for the 6sp, and this goes for dodge also.
    Now I am a gm diehard, I dont know why, but I am. I do have to agree that from 92-97 ford had a very handsome truck, but the 99+ are another story IMO. And the 99+ PS seem to have less drive ability than the 97-. More power, but I dont know if it gets to the ground as well.
    And seeing how the new 6.6 is trouncy the cummins and the PS in real world testing, makes me think that both ford and dodge have alot of catching up to do.
    Dino
     
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