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Snow Plow Welding Fact Not Advertisement

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Bryan, Mar 17, 2001.

  1. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    I have looked back through the many pages on this site and there are a lot of complaints on welding. It seems to be not only one brand of snow plow. I work for Sno-Way and if you have a plow that is 1year old or less and you experience welding problems, WE NEED TO KNOW, if your dealer is not helping you out with this, call us directly at 1-800-662-1453. The worse thing that can happen to any product in general is failure. We at Sno-Way have set high standards, this is not an advertisement ONLY FACT. We are currently ISO9002 certified. This means anything put together in our facility goes through a series of quality checks. If you the end user are experiencing a welding problem, 97% of our plow is robotic welded, this is why we need to know as soon as you have these problems. Often because of lack of communication, we don't hear about any problems until the dealer says something. Many of you out there know more about metal than we salesmen will ever know, but all same, inorder to provide a quality product that will last is important to me as a salesman and we need to know. All manufacturers need to know as many are going the route of the robot. Sno-Way for instance has invested millions to acquire two Mitsubishi Lasers, two of largest in world, it for this reason, we as a manufacturer need to know when we have customers who have problems. Again, I do not intend on this being an advertisement only trying to convey why it is important for you the customer to let us know how your equipment is holding up. This goes for any brand of plow.
     
  2. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    You're at the right place (other than the SIMA web site members forum). Guys here have no problems speaking out about "problems" that arise. Glad to know you're looking for feedback, good and bad.

    Keep it up.
     
  3. SlimJim Z71

    SlimJim Z71 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,031

    I've been on this forum for a while now, and have become a part of SIMA, and I have NEVER seen a post from a company in this nature. Congrats!

    I have a SnoWay plow. No weld problems yet, but I do have a problem with the pump. When I hit the switch to raise the plow, once I let off, the plow keeps going up. It does this when I use the angle switches too. It's less than a year old. I had the solenoid replaced a few months ago. Any ideas?

    Sorry, I know you didn't intend this thread to be a complaint form, but I figured I'd ask since you guys care enough to at least be here in the first place.

    I've had nothing but positive experiences with SnoWay... I'll definately consider another one when the time comes.

    -Tim
     
  4. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    Response to SlimjimZ71

    Tim, thanks for the question. In both instances if the plow continues to move after letting off the buttons, have someone stand outside by the powerpack and make sure the motor is not continuing to run. If it is not continuing to run, it is a valve that is not closing fast enough and still allows fluid to run through the valve block. My suggestion would be to take it to your dealer where you bought the plow and explain what is going on. If you get no help call us at the factory at 1-800-662-1453. Since your plow is less than one year old, everything with the power unit is covered under warranty including labor to replace any valve or solenoid. You need the dealers help to get warranty. Try the dealer route first, tell them that you feel the a valve is not closing fast enough and to check coil connections and perhaps try a new valve to see if this corrects the problem. Since we do not manufacture the valve or the coil, it is not impossible to get one that does not fully function, especially after use. If the dealer has questions, have them call Kevin Witt our technical assistance at Sno-Way.
     
  5. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Tim,

    When you say the plow continues to go up do you mean all the way up or just an inch or two? If it's only an inch or so that is the nature of the beast. Anytime the pump is turning and no control solenoids are open (downpressure or angle) the plow will rise. What happens is that when you release a control function the valve closes instantly while the pump motor coasts to a stop. Any oil that gets pumpes while the motor is coasting will go into the up function and lift the plow slightly.
     
  6. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    Alan response to Tim

    Alan, yes you are correct, it is normal for the Sno-Way plow to jump up slightly when angling, but I have not heard of the plow continuing upward when lifting. Perhaps I misunderstood Tim's question. I do know that some dealers have been able to eliminate this inconvenience through adjustments.
     
  7. Mike Nelson

    Mike Nelson Senior Member
    Messages: 637

    Really nice to see someone cares.

    Cudos to Sno-Way
     
  8. SlimJim Z71

    SlimJim Z71 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,031

    No, it's not that a valve isn't closing fast enough. The pump will continue to run... it's almost like I'm still holding the button down. It sounds like either the solenoid is sticking, or possibly the switch went south.

    I have to admit, I'm very happy with you guys at SnoWay. I had to take my truck in to have the plow lights looked at, and ended up sitting there for about 6-hours. They never found anything wrong, and sent me packing. I emailed SnoWay about this problem, and the next day I got a call from the owner of the place that installed my plow, and he apologised over and over again and said to bring my truck back in and he will personally see to it that it gets fixed.

    Maybe SnoWays are not considered the best plows on the planet, but I'm very happy with mine, and they REALLY stand behind their product. I'm glad I bought one.

    -Tim
     
  9. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    This Kevin Witt fellow, is he the same Kevin who was the tech service rep out there a couple years or more ago?
     
  10. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    To Alan on Kevin Witt

    Yes, Kevin has been with Sno-Way for several years now.
    Kevin Witt has came a long way with Sno-Way and his learning curve. Over the past two years he has been involved with Research & Development as well as taking over warranties. He still also does technical service. He wears many hats at our company, he can be moody at times, but that is ususally because he is waiting on answers himself.
     
  11. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Yeah, I've dealt with him a few times. Most recently a little more than a year ago and in my humble opinion he's about as useful as tits on a boar hog. His stock answer has always been "We've never seen that problem before". Last time he told me that I was looking at an A-frame that had weld failure from lack of fusion and he told me there might be one or two per year that that occurred on. I told him they must have sent all of them to Burlington, VT at that rate because I had one and there were two more with identical failures at my dealer right at that moment. So, instead of admitting there just might be a problem he called the dealer and gave him hell for admitting to me that he was seeing failures as well. Problems happen, but putting somebody with a denial attitude in a service position sure doesn't help. I wasn't upset about the failure, those things happen, UNTIL I started getting a snow job. I think I've talked to him three times over the past few years and I have yet to get anything but "We've never heard of that". Even the dealers get that line when they call, so much that it's a standing joke to hear a mech comment on a problem with a big grin and "Never seen THAT before!" I bent Dwayne's ear about that at Portland last spring. The A-frame was finally replaced at no cost, but before I installed it I inspected it closely and IT HAD THE SAME WELD PROBLEM! Easy enough to fix, but even easier to fix on the assembly line IF the guy you talk to on the phone was interested in accomplishing that. Your stuff is no better or worse than any other brand, so that is not the issue. I will continue to buy Sno-Way because I have a dealer who absolute GOLD when it comes to service. I will recommend Sno-Way to others with the caveat that they need to inspect certain areas for weld problems. But I sure would like to talk to somebody in Wisconsin who seemed to give a hoot about catching problems at the source rather than handing out a line of BS.

    [Edited by Alan on 03-18-2001 at 03:06 PM]
     
  12. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    Response to Alan

    Yes Alan, your correct. I do not agree that someone should take any kind of attitude with customers or dealers. Every situation is different and we as salesmen often air this out with Dwayne, Tom O'brien, and Terry Wendorff. Customer service is in my opinion is listening and then trying to come up with a solution for the customer or dealer. We could definitely use more technical service reps to answer questions. Just as I stated earlier in a post, quality is important to every manufacturer, if you the customer or dealer feel that something is not right with a subframe etc. then you should have the right to have your opinion heard. 90% of time every manufacturer runs a warranty report to see what parts are common failure and repeat problems. I would also agree with you when you say it is easier to put more weld on at the factory instead of relying on the dealer or customer to do it. There are several ways to get yourself heard. First call your dealer and have them ask to get your Sno-Way rep out to see what problem you are having, Second the rep should document the problem and take a picture if possible, Third the rep and dealer should both work together for the customer, Fourth either the rep or dealer should call and explain to Kevin our tech svc, or Tom O'brien our national sales manager, what is going on and what they are seeing, Fifth then contact the dealer and customer with what the factory has decided. Alan, in your case, I know it would have been a pain the butt, but sometimes to get yourself understood clearly, you need to go around people to find someone who will take time to listen to what you are talking about. It is the job of the Sno-Way Rep to help this happen! Every dealer should let their customer know who and how to contact the Sno-Way rep should they have questions. Also every season Dwayne, Tom, and Terry Wendorff travel a week with us salesmen in our territories, this is another good time to have your dealer set up a meeting with one of these gentlemen to air your concerns and point out potential problems. You the customer are our life blood, we do need your feedback good or bad. Unfortunately when communication breaks down, we then have a problem and customers who are not happy. I do not know about other salesmen, but I ask my dealers when I go in to call on them , if there has been any problems. I do this because the longer you wait to react, the worse the situation can become, especially during a heavy snow season. Alan thanks for your feedback.
     
  13. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    I don't own a snow way plow. However I have owned several plows, mostly Diamond and Fisher. We have yet to see a weld problem in my many years of plowing. I don't see what is so hard about welding a plow together.

    Geoff
     
  14. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Alan,
    Sounds like you finally have found someone to, at least, listen to what you have to say. Time will tell if they actually do anything about it. However, I think you have to admit that this is a good "first step".

    Kinda wish the other manufacturers would have the intestinal fortitude to actually talk to us on this (or SIMA's) forum (Vince and Dino do 'talk to us', but they are also "one of us" so it's to be expected). I know most of the manufacturers are 'watching' on this forum, but to actually get some feedback, in full public view, is different, to say the least.

    We have a special "product" topic area in the SIMA forum so that manufacturers can listen and talk back to us SIMA members, but to date - Vince and Dino are the only two to really participate in feedback regularly.

    At least Sno-Way has taken the lead in putting their gonads out there for us to swat at.... hope it's a trend that the "others" take heed of......

    Thanks to Bryan for leading the way (at least with regards to the plow manufacturers).
     
  15. Deere John

    Deere John Senior Member
    Messages: 410

    I'm glad to see the Sno-Way rep here - maybe his knowledge will rub off in other "places" that we have all griped about.

    No weld problems on my Bosses, but the stickers ejected at the first sign of serious work. Maybe this discussion will spur a little attention to quality issues from the other, less-than-involved manufacturers. (I remember about 2 months ago, Fisher was very quick to respond to a disgruntled member here when he went to their factory for the book and tour).

    How about it, Boss, Fisher, Diamond, Meyer, Hiniker (Yikes) and Western? Join the party - we don't bite.
     
  16. Bryan

    Bryan Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    A Thanks to the board

    I want to thank all of you who respond to my messages. I'm only regretful that I was not aware of this forum until Friday while at a dealers open house they pulled up this site for me to look at. Well to say the least, I am very pleased with the honesty and the feedback. As a salesman I have to believe in my product or I will not be successful. It is not very often I get to interact with the customers. This forum allows me to do that. Yes, I am a salesman, but I am also a consumer just like everyone else. It is to my advantage to know what is going on in field not just my monthly commission report. I would like to think that we all strive to produce a better product as we go along, it is my goal to provide my company feedback from the field to do just that, provide an even better product. I took a motto from one of my dealers that says "service provides sales" and to me that says it all. I figure if I'm going to use the internet, why not use it to its full advantage. I know and have met several other manufacturer reps, and I will be suggesting to them to give this board a try. I will be leaving for Michigan on Monday, so if I don't respond, just give me a little time and I will as soon as I get back. Thanks for your time.
     
  17. SlimJim Z71

    SlimJim Z71 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,031

    Bryan,

    Not sure if your company is a member of SIMA yet, but there's also a board on their site.

    http://www.sima.org

    Thanks again for all of your help!

    -Tim