1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Snow Dump

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Chief Plow, Sep 27, 2003.

  1. Chief Plow

    Chief Plow Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    In the past when we haul snow, we dumped it on an old field, that a local farmer owned, with the stipulation that we cleaned up the area at spring time. Last year we put mounds of snow out there I couldn't tell you how many trucks, but it was alot. He drops a bomber on us yesterday tells me that he is now going to charge us $40 a truck load to dump snow. I said WHAT..... This is not acceptable to me, especially being we did compensate him the last few seasons in addition to cleaning up the field. Now where would you find a place to dump snow, and how much should I expect to be paying, or is he inline, and I have just been spoiled the last few years? Thanks

    Rick
     
  2. cat320

    cat320 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,223

    I have always asked that question.Where to dump it has to be close not to spen more on trucking ,but you will have to incorperate that into your price.$40 does seam high for something that will melt and dose that still mean you have to clean up in the spring or does that $40 dollar dump charge include it?In the long run unless you have another place close buy do it you will pay more for trucking if you have to go farther i think.
     
  3. JD PLOWER

    JD PLOWER PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 751

    Depending on the size of the truck (10 wheeler, tri axle) that seems to be about right as far as prices go. We charge all customers a dumping fee in addition to trucking fee's so we are covered when we do get charged. As far as finding a site we ask existing customers if they are willing to be a dump site and we explain what that means and how they will be compensated for letting us use their facilities. A last resort is taking out an add for a dump site but we try hard not to do that since you will pay top dollar in that case.
     
  4. Santo

    Santo Banned
    Messages: 255

    You've been spoiled.

    'OL McDonald thinks your running a business , what with all them there trucks shooting their loads on his dirt.

    I'v been doing some bartering myself the past 4 years with my accountant. His lot is 16' x 40' , thats 2 swipes and I dont care if it's 2' high , it all go's into a creek.We shot at least 22 tri-axle loads on them there creek banks. He's happy . I'm happy.
     
  5. chtucker

    chtucker Senior Member
    Messages: 618

    and violating alot of environmental laws along the way.
     
  6. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Big time
     
  7. Santo

    Santo Banned
    Messages: 255

    May be true, But where does your liberal mind of infinite wisdom think that snow will end up. Would that be a sima violation besides an epa issue?
     
  8. Chief Plow

    Chief Plow Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    Ok, well never thought of that... But what are the regs for a snow dump? Are there any? If so where do you find them? And how many of us , if we are honest with ourselves, are following them? As I asked in my original post, where would you find a place to dump snow.

    Thanks
    Rick
     
  9. Santo

    Santo Banned
    Messages: 255

    We used a friend of mine years back, he is in the waste management biz. Call for a quote for a rolloff with 40 yd containers. They are usually a tiny bit slow enough to take on some snow. Just figure on them being part of the crew , they are not cheap.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2003
  10. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    At least in this state, you'd need to be careful where you dump because the salt in the snow could easily wind up in people's wells (98% of people in Maine, including me, are on private wells). The town next to me is being investigated right now because some people believe it's salt shed lets salt get into the ground water and has spoiled their wells. The biggest problem is that once that happens there is nothing to be done. The salt is in the ground in high concentrations and will contaminate wells for miles around for years. Now if you dumping into a spring that empties into a lake - you've not only killed the fish and plants in that stream but the lake, too.

    And I've been called a lot of things, but a Liberal isn't even close.

    Nationally, you could look on the EPA site. On a state level, depends on the state. I think my salt shed and use regulations are from the Inland Wildlife and Fisheries. If anybody from Maine is interested, let me know and I'll let you know the specifics. Or at least where they are from.
     
  11. Plow Babe

    Plow Babe Senior Member
    Messages: 218

    If you are looking for a place to dump the snow, I would suggest contacting the city or county public works department and asking them about it.

    We are fortunate in the fact that most sites around here have designated snow storage areas, so it does not have to be hauled off-site. For the areas that do require hauling, the Town of Dillon has a dump area, $20 per dump for a 5-yard tandem dump truck, and they take care of spring cleanup.

    I could be off base here, but I seem to have detected a note of sarcasm in Santo's remarks about "your liberal mind of infinite wisdom" and "would this be a SIMA violation."

    Sure, runoff ends up the creek, but the concern is the other litter, dirt, debris, etc. that is in the snow that gets dumped into the creek along with it. As I mentioned above, we don't do much hauling, so when the snow piles melt in the spring, we get to see what is left over that was mixed in with the snow, and it is pretty ugly.

    One of SIMA's goals is to promote high ethical standards and professionalism in the industry. So, I suppose deliberate violation of EPA regulations could also be viewed as a violation of what SIMA stands for, if you want to look at it that way.

    This could be an interesting scenario for the ethics essay on the CSP exam.
     
  12. chtucker

    chtucker Senior Member
    Messages: 618

    It has nothing to do with SIMA, Nothing to do with being/not being a liberal... it is a pratice that long ago was determined to harm the enviroment, and the water systems.

    Don't expect to come to a public place (plowsite.com) and brag about your flaunting of your disregard for your neighbor.

    Liberal AND conservative people would kick your ass for polluting their well if they could find (you) the source. (ever been to farm country?)

    Howard
     
  13. Santo

    Santo Banned
    Messages: 255

    SNOW DUMP............ not salt dump.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2003
  14. Rick, I really don't have any idea of fair rates, however I feel that the property owner should charge for dumping snow. He, as a property owner has taxes, a mortgage, etc on that field. Why should he not charge for dumping snow on his property when we make $$$ on each load hauled in? You know how we all feel about guys plowing for free, its the same thing. If the going rate for dumping is too high than your not charging enough. On the legal side, I have no specific info but I am sure that here in NYS there is something illegal about it, there always is. If you need a new dumping site we are just off exit 13 and have 150 acres, however it won't be free, we would have to come up with an agreeable rate.

    Also, where are you located? I've been curious.
     
  15. Plow Babe

    Plow Babe Senior Member
    Messages: 218

    This is obviously a volatile subject. But please consider that salt is not the only issue. There are dirt, grease, oil, and trash in parking lots and when they are plowed, all that ends up in the stacked snow. Just think about it from the perspective of if you had to use well water for your family, would you take that stacked snow that you are so casually dumping in the creek and dump it down your own well?

    Our business is also parking lot sweeping, and believe me, I would not want the stuff we sweep up dumped in my water source: Besides all the oily spots left from leaking cars, we find zillions of cigarette butts, dirty diapers, used condoms, syringes, baterries, and other general litter of paper, plastic bags, glass, aluminum cans, dirt, and gravel. The littering does not stop in the winter, it just gets covered with snow and plowed up into the snow piles.
     
  16. lamarbur

    lamarbur Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    Southbridge Mass use to allow themselves and other small surrounding towns to dump snow in an unused field behind their junio high school. The EPA stepped in and yelled, illegal.. No more dumoing snow in the field or small river/brook. They see used road salt and sand mix as a hazard.. Now, people are snealing around wherever they think they can dump and get away with it. So, can't answer of 40.00 is fair or not, if legal though and it was my field, I would charge it and not think twice.
     
  17. Chief Plow

    Chief Plow Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    Lets get this straight... I was using a field, nothing in site for miles..... Second, I have NO problems paying anyone for this service, I was merely asking a question...... This seems to be a very touchy subject... Almost to the point is it worth it to get rid of it yourself, or to contract it out? Matt, I am familiar with exit 13, I am only 10 miles or so from there... Most of my work is in saratoga.


    Thanks
    Rick
     
  18. SnoJob67

    SnoJob67 Senior Member
    Messages: 384

    How much do others charge customers for a dump fee?

    Don't sweat some of the feedback you got, Chief. Not saying there weren't valid points made, but you can easily identify the posts in this thread that were an opportunity for someone to let out their pent-up aggressions. Maybe someone's partner is a dominatrix and their only opportunity to express themself is anonymously at this board??? :nod:

    Back to the topic.... I believe that the farmer's price is a bit high, depending upon what size trucks we are talking about.
    I would think that $25 per load would be a world of plenty for him to charge you. If he gets $25 and you get $40 from the customer, plus trucking, you would be in decent shape.

    We bought a new building with some property and I intend to dump there, as necessary. I have considered charging a $40 dump fee for an 8 yard load of snow. If it was debris or trash, it would cost $140 to dispose of in my area, so, I feel that $40 for some snow is a bargain for the customer and myself.

    I agree there will be SOME residual salt in the snow, but at such a low concentration that unless it was melting into a stream, river, or underground water source my guess is that the effects would be nil, but contact the EPA if you have any doubts since I am a snow professional and not an environmental professional.

    I would imagine that geography and geology would both come into play when determining the risk of contaminating water sources. I may contact the EPA to check. To be safe, I will tell them I am Santo and give them his home address if they ask. Just kiddin'! :D
     
  19. Michael F

    Michael F Senior Member
    Messages: 203

    I was told by a guy I used to work with that his former employer (a hospital) got in major problems with the DEC for exactly what many of you are doing. From what he told me the run off from snow dumped must go into the sewer system so it can be treated. This is because of all the contaminates from the parking lots(oil, salt, anti-freeze, etc.), not the snow itself. This is second hand knowledge, but before I was paid to remove/haul/dump I would look into it, it's part of your job as a responsible contractor.
     
  20. sonjaab

    sonjaab PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,425

    In Oswego NY..........Because they had another record
    amount of snow in the city it was all piled in a area
    near lake Ontario. HUGE PILES! They had 150 plus
    inches also.
    Well, the Feds came along and complained about
    pollution etc.

    Matter of fact the snow is still there from last year !