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Snow Dragon Melter

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by JohnnyRoyale, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    We are considering purchasing a Snow Dragon Melter-does anyone here have any experience with this monster. Videos and literature look good, but I'm curious to know true production rates, problems, operating costs etc.
     
  2. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,868

    Now why wouldn't you believe what the inventor of snow as to say about his product?
     
  3. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    Saw their literature at Con Expo yesterday at Hartford,Ct. No dragon,just the sales poop.Something to maybe consider--some places around me in NY forbid dump sites for snow.So where you are going to melt the snow---is the runoff allowable? We live in crazy times.Might want to check.
     
  4. Liquid

    Liquid Junior Member
    Messages: 9

    Detroit metro airport tried one, once........... They found it to be cost prohibitive.. Cheaper to have it hauled away under someone elses responsibility rather than have a state employee stand next to it and several other operators packing it....
     
  5. Liquid

    Liquid Junior Member
    Messages: 9

    but, they deal with allot of snow, ALLOT of snow................ I guess it depends on your situation.
     
  6. Italiano67

    Italiano67 Senior Member
    Messages: 640

    Did you see the amount of fuel they can burn in an hour? Start adding that up and trucking snow looks reasonable.
     
  7. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    I saw the fuel consumption numbers and, in a scenario like tonite (where we are hauling off site), I calculated haulage and tipping fees as such: 20 triaxles at $75 per hour x 1.5 hours round trip = $2250 +$50 dump fee x 20 loads adds another $1000.00 to the equation, for a total of approx $3000-$3250 per 20 loads hauled. We have approx 200 loads to move from this one particular site and were booked for the week as of now. At 300-400 litres of fuel per hour to operate, it seems like a small price to pay (in comparison). Question is, can I get that type of production out of the SND 900 unit? And. whats written in literature is often sugar coated-I want to hear an unbiased real opinion from a contractor.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2008
  8. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    Response to post #2

    Im not denying what John Allin claims, I just want to hear what contractors using this equipment have to say-as literature is oftentimes sugarcoated to make numbers work. On paper everything is possible-give me real time numbers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2008
  9. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    My apologies for my replies being all over the place-I'm new to this and a bit tired.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2008
  10. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,868

    Do a search, I believe someone out of NJ had one and was advertising for work here earlier in the year. Maybe they have what you're looking for.
     
  11. QuadPlower

    QuadPlower PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,056

    I think they have their place. I would consider it for parking garage roof top work. Melt the snow up their instead of hauling it down and away.

    Not everyone can get the kinds of trucks that are needed to haul away snow. I think if your charged enough it could be worth it. I also think it could be subed out during the year to help pay for itself.

    Effecient or not, I think they would be cool to watch.
     
  12. Italiano67

    Italiano67 Senior Member
    Messages: 640

    When you mentioned your truck rates and the amount of time on a round trip it makes sense. Here they usually find a close dump site in a field etc. Plus quad axles aound here with 18 yard loads only get at best 65.00 per hour.
     
  13. sunriseturf

    sunriseturf Member
    Messages: 54

    My thought on them is the amount of fuel they burn is obscene. 1 gallon of diesel per cubic yard of snow melt? Please. Let the sun melt it off. (Solar energy at it's best) On some of those big units they have to have the fuel truck(3600 gallon tankers) park next ot these things to keep them going.
     
  14. speedy

    speedy Senior Member
    Messages: 104

    It seems to me that snow melters can only be justified by Government entities. The best example of which is likely airports with their stringent security rules. If snow needs to be hauled off-site ans the trucks need to be inspected coming and going, and if the truck traffic is going to hamper operations, then the cost may be justified.

    Some cities have mobile units that are self propelled and move along picking up a windrow and the melt spills out and runs down the gutter into the storm drains. This is likely only a reasonable option in places where the climate is very mild, say Vancouver, maybe Seattle and a few others. Maybe in a few select downtown areas it may be an option as well.

    The parking garage rooftop is a unique application for it too. But you'd think a chute down to a waiting truck, like you see when they renovate a high-rise would be a more viable option....Shouldn't the structure's designers think about this stuff beforehand?
     
  15. SnoDawgs

    SnoDawgs Member
    from Ontario
    Messages: 44

    Where are you finding these numbers? We are looking at one of these smaller SND900 units and worst case scenario we can't generate those numbers.
     
  16. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    Suposedly the Snow Dragons are more efficent than the other units. Do a search on John Allin & SMG (the previous company he ran). I don't know what to believe. I do know he did alot of good for the industry & alot of bad, don't know more of which. I know it takes BIG B@#Ls to go a symposium after you screwed or stiffed so many of those there. He does it.
     
  17. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    Neige has one, any answers to my questions Paul? Thanks for reviving this thread BTW-saved me from starting it again.
     
  18. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,197

    Thats just it, more and more its illegal just to open a dump site anywhere. I believe the city of Ottawa found 120 of them, and fined the owners. Here in Quebec the property management companies are responsible where their snow gets dumped. If the contractor dumps illegally, the property management company can be held responsible.

    The numbers I am running with is around $300.00 an hour for home heating oil.


    Those are roughly the same numbers I come up with. I figured it will melt 12 trucks of 20 cubic yards an hour. Those are their numbers, I have yet to try it out myself. I assume they are fair numbers, based on freshly pushed or stacked snow.
    So just your dumping fees equal $600.00 an hour of melted snow. Now bring in the trucks, say it takes 1 hour round trip, that 12 trucks an hour at $75.00 that adds another $900.00 to the equation.So we are talking $1500.00 to haul snow, and thats if everything goes well. Like between 10PM and 5AM now add traffic or an accident and your numbers start to really climb. In Montreal last winter it often took more than 2 hrs for a load. Now the numbers go crazy, where as the melter, the cost is constant. You melt 240 cubic yards an hour, any time, no traffic concerns. Lastly you do not have to rely on someone else to get the job done.


    I will definitely keep you up to date. If you have more questions give me a call at 514 608 4675
    Paul
     
  19. SnoDawgs

    SnoDawgs Member
    from Ontario
    Messages: 44

    Hi Neige or Paul, I suspect your municipality has a discharge to storm by-law with numbers around the 15mg per litre total allowable suspended solids. How does one achieve compliance to this spec without a complex filtration unit?? Do municipalities even care? I certainly wouldn't want to run into difficulties once I have one.
    Thanks
     
  20. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,197

    Thats the million dollar question. I will have one soon, we will do water tests as soon as snow is available. Snow Dragon and Twin Equipment, will do everything in their power to make sure everything passes the environmental standards in our area. Its in their best interests that municipalities ok this form of snow management. The rest is wait and see. I'm confident that it will fall in the parameters of the environment