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Snow Coming And Still Pump Problems!!!

Discussion in 'Fisher Engineering Discussion' started by BoulderBronco, Dec 27, 2006.

  1. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    I have been having trouble with my old school belt driven setup. It works fine cold but after 30-60 minutes it gets to the point where I have to hit 2k RPM to raise the plow. I have tried two different pumps, same problem. I also just put a 37% smaller pulley on the pump for that last storm we got and still had a problem. We are getting another storm tomorrow and want to have a good working setup. Someone please give me some ideas. Only thing I can think of is the fluid is getting to hot so a tranny cooler on the return line might be a good idea. Any suggestions? Thanks.
     
  2. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    When we had that setup the plow worked faster when the pump oil was hot. What does the belt feel like after an 1hr? Wrong belt? Check the fluid when it's hot. We never had a problem so not really sure.
     
  3. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    belt is tight and if it loosens up I tighten it. I keep an eye on the fluid and over the course of say 30hr of plowing I need to put a couple ounces in to fill it.
     
  4. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

  5. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    Thanks for that. I have gone through it but I never read the troubleshooting. Only thing I can think of is that I need to really keep it full, which actually hasn't helped in the past. Also it said not to hold the lever up after the plow is up and the same with angling. That goes without saying but I think maybe I do it by habbit so I will concentrate on releasing the lever when done. I also tend to hold it to one side or the other when angle plowing thinking that the blade will kick back if I don't. So I will try to pay attention to that also because it's probably not good for it. Other than that I am still out of ideas.
     
  6. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Sorry ,I'm empty.
     
  7. Vinnie

    Vinnie Senior Member
    Messages: 156

    My only suggestion is looking at the pressure relief spring . about the only way to check it is with a pressure gauge. You would have to use a T fitting and gauge to check your lift and angle pressure is correct. Your local(plow) shops may be able to help .
     
  8. B&B

    B&B PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,777

    Boulder, I think you may have the answer to your own question right in your post! If your constantly holding the control lever in the angle or up position then after 30-60 minute's it's no wonder it get's slow.When you constantly hold the lever,the clutch is engaged,the pump is pumping fluid but it has no where to go as the plow is at the end of it's travel. The pump will be straining against the pressure relief valve the whole time you have the lever moved and the plow is at the end of it's travel. This will cause a lot of heat build up in the pump and aerate the fluid considerably which would explain why it work's fine when it's cold and then slow's down the more you use it.
     
  9. gordyo

    gordyo Senior Member
    Messages: 527

    If it is not the problem mentioned directly above by B&B and this is the ole cables through the firewall to a control valve set up, I would check to make sure that the cables are adjusted so they are pushing/pulling both valves spools open all the way. I know on my F-350 with the ole pump and cable control, this is the common problem. Not sure if the cables stretch or what but when things slow way down after 40 minutes of plowing usually a little adjustment of the cables fixes it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2006
  10. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    Thanks for the help guys. But I just went out and plowed for about ten minutes. I didn't hold the joystick at all and it will now barely raise at idle (~800-900RPM). The fluid is only luke warm. I have checked the cable adjustments many times and did it again just now and they are good. Do these belt driven pumps have any sort of internal filter? We are going to get dumped on over the next few days and need to get this fixed.
     
  11. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    No internal filter. There is a pressure relief. I think you really need to get a pressure guage and read the pressures at angle and lift, maybe even directly from the pump.

    As was said, after you angle or lift you need to let the valve re-center so that the pump can circulate the fluid. The fluid heats up real fast otherwise.

    I just can't believe that you got two bad pumps. Something is not right somewhere. Do you have the pump pressure line going into "IN" on the valve assembly? Can you take a digital picture of the beltdrive setup?
     
  12. chaseatg

    chaseatg Member
    Messages: 94

    No filter in pump

    The a2311 pump does not have an internal filter. Check your pump preasure, install a presure gage at the angle fitting to get a reading. Those pumps are designed to put out 1500 psi at 1000 rpm engine speed. If you do not have 1500 psi your pump is no good.
    The valve body and pump are not rebuildable so do not waste you time. Again check your pump presure, then go from there, beware of aftermarket pumps they do not hold up. You should install a filter in the low presure line, Fisher does sell a in line filter kit you should use. Check your angle cylinders and a frame to make sure they are not bent. If your angle cylinders are under presure because of a bent a frame you are grinding metal inside the cylinders and are sending the fragments into the pump. This will cause a pump to fail very fast. Again check the presure first before doing anything. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2006
  13. wirenut

    wirenut Senior Member
    from nh
    Messages: 512

    cut the tank in half to get at the pump,take the pump out and
    take it apart. what you want to do is face gears and body
     
  14. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    Ok. I think you guys are right about checking the pump pressure. I have just had zero time between that last storm an then X-mas in Mass and then back out here for this storm. I will have to get a high pressure guage to do the test. Flipper, I THINK I have all the lines hooked up correctly on the valve body but I can't make out any marks for "IN" or "OUT". I may be able to get a pic in the next day or two if I have a minute. The pressure line goes into the right side of the valve body if you consider the up and down and in and out "pistons" or valves the rear of the valve body.
     
  15. Flipper

    Flipper PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,180

    If it is a Fisher valve then it should go into the lift cylinder (single hose) side of the valve first. There should be and "IN" marked just above the port but it may be rusted out. This could definately be causing a problem. If the valve / cable attachment points are facing south then the single lift valve should be west or left side. This is where the pressure line must go.
     
  16. BoulderBronco

    BoulderBronco Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    Lines are good. I am going to test the pump when I have a chance after this snow.