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Slip & Fall on my acct today!!!

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Sno4U, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. Sno4U

    Sno4U Senior Member
    Messages: 480

    Today was just not my day. Got call from a plowing/salting client that he had 2 slip & falls this morning out in the parking lot.
    What happened is the business in front of my clients rear parking area piled up snow in the back corner of their property(using a loader), well w/ yesterdays thaw, water ran under the chain link fence and onto my clients property. Of course we had freezing temps overnite and when employees came in this morning (early AM) it was ice.
    Who's liability would this be?
    The front businesses b/c their runoff came onto my clients prop. and created a hazardous situation?
    Or: Mine b/c I do the salting. I mean WTF am I supposed to sit on all of my props. looking for runoff every nite???
     
  2. scottL

    scottL PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,603

    Interesting.
    If you consider a home owner who gets flooded from their neighbors property ... It would actually be the neighbors problem and/or the village and county which has departments which handle this.

    If it was reasonable to assume you knew that this could happen then maybe should should have salted. On the other hand the property owner should always be aware of their property as they are the front line. Once they called you you went out to salt thus addressing it upon notice. Otherwise, I think most will take is as an act of nature.

    Of course you'll always get the sell outs will to settle anything and screw everyone crowd. Double check your contract.
     
  3. Sno4U

    Sno4U Senior Member
    Messages: 480

    Yes, I was notified and asked if I could salt the lot by a certain time in the afternoon and if I could do a "heavy" application. Which I did.
    I would say it would have been difficult to foresee the issue. We had the acct. last year and this didn't happen but, this is the 1st time they piled all the snow up in that corner.
     
  4. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Say nothing to anybody. Write down everything you can remember about what you did and when. Write down who contacted you and when. Get names and statements of everybody involved. Contact your insurance agent. Consult/hire YOUR OWN lawyer (do not rely on the insurance co lawyer to look out for your interests). The outcome will depend largely on your state laws. Every state is different. Here, the legal premise is: This is Maine; It snows in Maine; Snow is slick. Even legally, businesses have no obligation to clear sidewalks until after the snow stops. People are expected to use reasonable caution to avoid dangerous situations.
     
  5. creativedesigns

    creativedesigns PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,929

    Tell them to wear cleats on their shoes/boots, then they won't fall on slippery ice!
    You can buy these to fit over any size boot.

    cleats.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2008
  6. Milwaukee

    Milwaukee 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,180

    Then why I fall at school's park lot but not report to anyone but it pretty bad fall. My back do still ache from this morning accident

    Why many people do this it stupid. They can't be sure that they would never fall on ice.


    I have notice water from snowpile that I make pile have water then it frozen then fun thing my neighborhood get his car to store to get food so his car spin on ice so he end put salt in there well salt was actual from kitchen but it do good job deice then 10 min he finally out it.
     
  7. yamaguy

    yamaguy Senior Member
    Messages: 556

    It sounds like you would be saying quite a bit to alot of people. :p
     
  8. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    :confused:
     
  9. yamaguy

    yamaguy Senior Member
    Messages: 556

    Maybe this will help.
     
  10. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    the ice on youre side of the fence....we'll that one is a tuugh-ee

    i would guess that it is still youre problem 'cause it is still natural drainage. wether it be rain or snow you are still down hill and need to properly drain youre property, i deal with this problem almost everyday in the excavation side of thing's, i have clients call wanting me to deal with the ajoining farm's teraces or run-off

    i had a farm i owned and the teraces from the other farm was cutting ruts in my farm......so i took the ol' terex and made a burm and viola they had themselves a nice little pond :D and i got sued for lost cropland.......well by the time it was over the judge ruled in my favor and the other guy even had to pay for my attorny fee's ;)..how cool is that:D
     
  11. MnDLawn

    MnDLawn Senior Member
    Messages: 213

    Someone needs to tell them that ice is slippery and if you don't want to fall don't walk on it, or at least learn how to. Everyone wants a reason to sue.:dizzy:
     
  12. CARDOCTOR

    CARDOCTOR PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,310

    take pics before the evidence melts away . how many days has it been since the last time you salted


    JR
     
  13. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,992

    What does your contract say about your liability. Our's states we are responsible for monitoring surface conditions for 24 hours after the snow stops. It then becomes the responsibility of the owner.
     
  14. Plowin in VT

    Plowin in VT Senior Member
    Messages: 233

    I like that! I'm going to have to put that in next year's contracts!!!
     
  15. AbsoluteH&L

    AbsoluteH&L Senior Member
    Messages: 573

    I have to agree, then again I don't do that much commercial. But here it is a bit of a given, snow and ice are slippery, Duh. Damb sue happy PITA.
     
  16. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,046

    It's your problem, unfortunately. This is the reason we do site checks 7 days a week. We salt runoff and puddles and we keep detailed records. It sucks but we have to do it or we won't be able to afford insurance. Every job we have get's a site check every morning before 6 am.
     
  17. Snowpower

    Snowpower Senior Member
    Messages: 636

    Really?

    lol
     
  18. Oasis

    Oasis Senior Member
    Messages: 273

    I know its a pain in the a$$ but ... SITE CHECKS SITE CHECKS SITE CHECKS......

    Its actually not that bad though... always seems to present extra oppertunities for salting applications.
     
  19. treeman06

    treeman06 Senior Member
    Messages: 108

    i ahve been in the process of upgrading my business insurance and this is something that we went over, my agent said as long as your insurance is good, you are upfront with the insurance company, they will stand behind you on slip and fall claims.
     
  20. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,822

    If you go to do a site check, and theres ice, do you call the manager/owner and say that your salting and he has to pay for it? It would make sense to do this since if someone slips its your problem.

    This whole thing really doesn't make sense to me. When you plow and salt someones parking lot, you automatically take on all the responsibility of a slip and fall? and remove all responsibilty of monitoring ice conditions off the property owner? I know this is beating a dead horse around here, but it really seems that it should be the property owners fault. Lets say for example I have a landscaper put in a paver plaza, a month later someone trips on a paver slightly sticking up and tries to sue, would they be able to sue the guy who installed it or us? I would think us.

    Is there any difference in selling snow and ice management services or snow plowing and salting spreading services? I would think that if you have to do site checks everyday the customer would pay very good for it. Or is this just part of the business? I do site checks at our own properties everyday, but thats because I'm there everyday and we own it.