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Skid size, time savings?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by SnowMatic, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. SnowMatic

    SnowMatic Member
    from USA
    Messages: 57

    On average how much time savings is there 'plowing' if you go from a S590/242D with a 8ft pusher vs if you jumped up a size in a skid to a S650/262D and 10ft pusher.
    The current lot/drive takes approx 6hr avg with a truck/vblade, avg storm.
    And lets assume a proficient operator with the skid, Not newbie against a seasoned operator.

    Thanks
     
  2. leigh

    leigh PlowSite.com Addict
    from CT
    Messages: 1,990

    12.5% faster,save about 45 minutes
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
  3. TKLAWN

    TKLAWN PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,575

    Put a set of snow tires on the smaller machine and it will push as much as the larger one. Cheaper machine, less fuel = more profit JMO.
     
  4. Brad3403

    Brad3403 Senior Member
    from Alberta
    Messages: 392

    I agree!!!
     
  5. WIPensFan

    WIPensFan PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,489

    If the lot takes 6hrs on average you should get the bigger machine with the bigger pusher and snow tires. Maybe even bigger machine than S650/262D.
     
  6. edgeair

    edgeair Senior Member
    Messages: 597

    Its all going to depend on what the parameters of the lot are. If it is small narrow spaces such as driveways, or between islands in a smaller lot, then you won't see much advantage.

    If on the other hand, you are making long pushes (or have bigger open spaces) and are filling up the pusher box each time, then you will be gaining roughly 20% productivity plus the theoretical reduced (or increased) slippage factor if the box is too big (or too small) for the machine. Lots of variables.

    Of course we are going to assume that both machines are specd with 2 speed the same (not sure if the 590 has the same top end speed as the 650 in high speed mode).
     
  7. WIPensFan

    WIPensFan PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,489

    I agree with you.

    I assumed if he was asking about possibly a 10ft pusher then that size would not be a limiting factor. I should never assume on this site as many times people leave out vital information when they ask the original questions.

    To the OP and others, when asking advice and questions, be as detailed as possible in the first post. Thanks.
     
  8. SnowMatic

    SnowMatic Member
    from USA
    Messages: 57

    Ok so this makes sense to me to a degree.
    Save money getting a smaller machine, may use less fuel and larger machine is going to burn more fuel. Maybe??

    The 242Cat is comparable to a BC S590 in lift (Cat 50lbs more) the Cat242 has 8 more HP, and Cat machine weighs 245lbs more.
    The 262Cat is comparable to a BC S650 in lift, (Cat 10lbs more) the Cat262 has the same HP as the Cat242 & BC650, the BC650 weighs 316lbs more than Cat 262.

    So in the case of the 590 (less hp/less weight), wouldnt it use more fuel because it may have to work harder to push whats getting collected in a pushbox.
    vs say the 242 which has a bit more hp/weight.
    and in regards to the 262 its the same hp as the 242, but alot more weight so it may use more fuel based on its weight, wouldnt it push a 8ft pushbox better than the 590/242.
    Now if I put a 10ft pushbox on the front of the 650 or 262 then I increase the amount of snow I can push at one time. But I may use more fuel doing so because its a bigger machine. and should I assume that like the 590/242 with a 8ft pusher, your going to come to a point where the 10ft pusher is maybe too much for the 262 or 650? and at that point the machine is going to have to work harder to push the 10ft box and burn more fuel.

    Again the 242/262/650 are all rated 74hp but machine weight varies.
    the 590 is 66hp

    Is a 262 or 650 a waste of extra money when it may not push a 10ft pushbox any better than a 590 or 242 with a 8ft pushbox.
    Is a 262 or 650 a waste of extra money when you may only put a 8ft pushbox on the front?


    Im doing 30ft wide drives, on some drives there are bldgs on both sides of the drives which the snow has to go out one end or the other of the drive. and other bldgs where the majority of the snow is just getting pushed to the end of the drive and piled up out of the way.
    Longest push's would be a little over 400ft.
    The way it is now with a pickup all snow gets pushed to the end of the drives, very little (except last winter) gets windrowed to the outside of any of the outside drives. All these drives are stoned.
    also have a 'lot' (open space) that gets done too. which is ashpalt (27,000 sqft)


    Yes, both machines specd with 2 speed.
    Top speed 590 11.0 vs 242 11.5
    Top speed 650 12.3 vs 262 11.0



    Im lost by your post, I did say 10ft with a larger machine in my first post....?
     
  9. Whiffyspark

    Whiffyspark 2000 Club Member
    from SOMD
    Messages: 2,402

    You're over thinking it. Just stick with what you have
     
  10. Drakeslayer

    Drakeslayer 2000 Club Member
    from Carver
    Messages: 2,783

    Our 650 with 22.5" snow tires will go 17-18 MPH. So in big spaces the fuel savings would be less than labor on most routes. Go with larger machine and containment box.
     
  11. WIPensFan

    WIPensFan PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,489

    I agreed with Edgeair about wanting to know details about what you're plowing. Basically the info you gave the second time around, but should have started off with
    Im doing 30ft wide drives, on some drives there are bldgs on both sides of the drives which the snow has to go out one end or the other of the drive. and other bldgs where the majority of the snow is just getting pushed to the end of the drive and piled up out of the way.
    Longest push's would be a little over 400ft.
    The way it is now with a pickup all snow gets pushed to the end of the drives, very little (except last winter) gets windrowed to the outside of any of the outside drives. All these drives are stoned.
    also have a 'lot' (open space) that gets done too. which is ashpalt (27,000 sqft)


    This info should be a big determining factor in skid size, pusher size and time savings. You want to save time?? Get the biggest skid you can afford and haul, and put the biggest pusher it will handle on it. Again, details...are you keeping it on site? Or hauling it to the site each event? Big skids and big pushers are not easy to trailer around.
     
  12. Brad3403

    Brad3403 Senior Member
    from Alberta
    Messages: 392

    What about a Bobcat S630? I believe the weight of the machine is between a Cat 242 and 262. The main difference between the Bobcat S630 and S650 is that the S650 is vertical lift path where the S630 is radial, which means the S650 will lift higher. Really, this is only a benefit if you're loading trucks. The price is a few grand difference.
     
  13. Brad3403

    Brad3403 Senior Member
    from Alberta
    Messages: 392

    Also wanted to add.......I have had bad luck with pushers. I've tried Pro-Tech and wasn't happy with them. I found they didn't scrape well enough, they did have the steel cutting edges. This year I'm trying the Kage system.
     
  14. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,382

    If something was taking me that long to do I would, A)get a much larger machine or B) just put a truck in there for some support. IMO, nothing should take 6 hours to plow to complete the job.
     
  15. snocrete

    snocrete Banned
    Messages: 2,862

    This is what I had suggested to the OP at one time, and still think this would be the way to go for him...He could find a set of snow tires/rims for about $1000 & a brand new 10ft boss pusher for around $2500.

    :eek:You running NOS?
     
  16. SnowMatic

    SnowMatic Member
    from USA
    Messages: 57

    yeah 630 comes in at 7707lbs and a 246 comes in at 7424lbs both 74hp machines.
    I was under the impression that a vertical lift was the way to go for having your bucket the furthest away from the machine when dumping and for stacking the highest.
    wouldnt I want a skid that will push and dump material the furthest & highest away from the skid?

    I agree.
    Part of the problem is I can only plow one way with the truck, and doing a lot of jockey around to line up the truck to run along bldgs.
    Had truck and a rental skid last year during a major storm and it still took us 7 hrs to complete using both.

    When the truck comes to the end of it useful days, The skid will have to replace what the truck is doing. But I dont want to spend 6 hrs plowing and I was hoping that the skid would be quicker and save some time plowing

    Yeah appreciate all the help snocrete. This may come easier for you guys who have used this equipment for plowing. Im a newbie to the skids so just trying to get things figured out.
     
  17. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    If the lot takes 6hrs with a Truck with a V

    Depends how the lot is setup if you can pile snow at both ends

    Even a 8ft would out push the V

    How many acres is the lot

    If I guess a Skid with a 8ft plow you might knock off maybe 1 or 2 hrs That depends on where you can pile the snow
    With 10ft plow you might knock off 2-2.5 hrs hrs

    I have a lot that I can pile on both ends But always push one way with the Truck V and when I started run Skid The time went from 30mins to 15mins
    Truck V is a 9.6 w/wings and my Skid plow is a 7.6 Box
     
  18. Chineau

    Chineau Senior Member
    Messages: 447

    I have a a 10ft. Snow pusher and use it with an S250, do not consider a machine with less than 70h.p. More ponies more better.
     
  19. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    That's next thing I want to do to my Skid Since I run mine down the road instead of hauling it
     
  20. rob_cook2001

    rob_cook2001 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,181

    I wouldn't want to hit a bump in my s650 while going 16mph! Especially on 22.5's!!