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Sign of the times at D.O.T

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Oshkosh, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    We just got word at NH D.O.T that the higher ups are rewriting the snow and ice policy to reduce the use of salt in an effort to save money.
    Right now I have to run approx 300lbs per lane mile on my route to keep the snow from bonding to the road.The new policy is going to tell me to run 100lbs per lane mile.Might as well not put any down.What we save in salt we will burn up in carbide and fuel.
    All in the name of saving $$$$ ,I think they should WARN the driving public that Black and Wet will no longer be our policy also....
     
  2. Craaaig

    Craaaig Senior Member
    Messages: 156

    is that starting this season?
     
  3. dirt digger

    dirt digger Senior Member
    Messages: 619

    doesn't surprise me...we are told on the township level to only salt hills and intersections..and do that at a minimum
     
  4. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Oshkosh, this is not directed at you. I presume you are doing what you are told.

    DOT. Just reading those three letters makes my blood boil. The friggin DOT goons around here don't have a clue how to be frugal. Just a couple of examples so far this year. Early in the season so the ground is pretty warm. Get less than an inch Saturday am, over by about 7 am. Sun is shining, temp is 36, head for 40. The traffic has already pounding the travel lane, which I'm sure was pretreated, down to nothing. Not even a half inch of loose slushy crap in the breakdown lane. DOT dump is driving down the breakdown lane. Blade down and dumping salt like there is no tomorrow. A couple of weeks ago, weekday storm over by about 5 am. Absolutely no frozen precip on the road. DOT dump with blade down. Blade is centered on that little crest between the travel and breakdown lane. Maybe, maybe two feet of the cutting edge taking all the weight. Both examples of wasted fuel, cutting edges, wear and tear on the trucks, tires, OVERTIME, and un needed abuse to the road itself. My father says we should buy some cards and tables and set them up at the DOT garage. It would be cheaper to pay them to play games.

    These guys can't maintain a gravel shoulder either. My road, which is very hilly, is so overdue for shoulder work that it looks like a log chute. So all the water runs along the edge of the hot top. At least six washouts big enough to swallow a pickup tire in a three mile stretch. And they just keep dumping inch minus in there, expecting it to stay. If they don't have the money to do a full ditch job, they should at least put some rip rap in there that wont wash away. I called my state rep to complain, I'm sure he was glad when I hung up.

    I'm done, sorry.
     
  5. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    do you guys prewet at the spinner?
     
  6. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    Starting Now...

    We where told today it was to start now.
    That the policy was being re-written as we speak.
    Not going to work on my road.We are going backwards...
     
  7. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    No liquids..

    We don't have any calcium at our shed.Up in the notch one truck has saddle tanks but we are way behind in that aspect up here...I was using tanks back in 2000/2001 down in Mass.
    The state knows about it but it is an added expense as they see it...They do prewet and use tankers on the interstate just not with us..
    It will take one bad accident before they change their minds ,sad it has to come to that.
     
  8. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    I hear you...

    I hear you. Every boss is different,they treat their roads differently and there are different levels of concern.There is one section near ours that is a nightmare storm after storm.It is so bad that the fuel tankers ask me to call my buddies up ahead for them to sand the hill so they don't get hung up....During this season I have know of multiple times where the truckers just parked and waited for them to come to work and clear the hill.District hasn't done a thing about it.
    Meanwhile we are out busting our asses trying to keep the pack from bonding and keep our roads black and wet as our snow and ice policy states.We get no extra thanks,except from the tanker drivers that is...



     
  9. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    Hey Oshkosh - keep up the good work. I'm sorry you are viewed as the bad guys while some pencil pusher is telling you how to do your job.

    There's some old Oshkosh iron for sale not too far from me. Are you interested? I could get you some pics and numbers some time.
     
  10. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    just wondered. the dot here prewetts with Geomelt and not sure on the amount of salt it cuts down on? probably cuts out 30-40% eaisly..
     
  11. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    I know

    I know there are different brines etc,pre wetting,treated materials etc that use less and are more effective but getting new technology accepted around her will take years (Then it isn't new anymore).
    You are correct pre-wetting even with calcium will make it react almost if not instantly,also it keeps the scatter down so you don't loose as much to bounce.Works much better especially on black ice or pre-treating where scatter is a big problem.
    They are running wild trying to save a dime right now and I am affraid public safety is going to be an issue.
     
  12. Oshkosh

    Oshkosh PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,655

    We will do our best

    We will continue to do our best with what they give us.We are between 5 ski areas so it is in the states best interest to keep the tourist safe and spending what money they have.Lots of tax dollars over this way for the state.
    If you happen by those Oshkosh's I would love the information.I still have a bunch of buddies running the old iron and are always interested in old treasures.lol



     
  13. fireside

    fireside Senior Member
    Messages: 661

    Ct DOT has also taken on a new policy on snow and ice removel. At the begining of the season they were pre treating with brine on the highways and trouble roads. Now the state sent a letter to all dot sites stating they will only pre treat with brine bridges only. Salt will not be applied to ALL roads between 9:00 pm and 4:00 am. It may be only applied if its a public safety issue not sure what that means. They do waste salt all the time first truck applies salt and the next three trucks plow it right off.
     
  14. daninline

    daninline Senior Member
    Messages: 430


    I was on the road today a 3AM and I didn't even see any trucks out and the road were all white.
    Up in NE CT I think the policy is to do nothing until there is a few crashes and I almost got taken out by one, the highway was all ice and crashes everywere and not a truck to be seen.
    Then I get down past RT6 one 395 the road is black and wet.
    2 times this has happened this year

    I did see a truck mid morning dragging the blade on a wet road, I just don't get it.



    So will 100LBs do much on a mile of highway?
     
  15. Oasis

    Oasis Senior Member
    Messages: 273

    Im curious, do you guys really get that much more snow then us or is your governement really that cheap? Here in the city of Toronto, they salt and plow like crazy every storm including all streets and sidewalks. They salt before storms to prevent bonding, they plow then resalt to clear residue..... wow I guess we are lucky.
     
  16. Craaaig

    Craaaig Senior Member
    Messages: 156

    it sounds they just do more planning in the budget for snow and ice control up there JMO
     
  17. musclecarboy

    musclecarboy 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,303

    Lucky in the sense that we can drive to the salt shed on a nice road only to find the shed is empty because the city took it all! They really do go nuts here, all salt/sand recently.
     
  18. Oasis

    Oasis Senior Member
    Messages: 273

    Really you guys getting mixed, we still getting straight salt with prestorm brine.
     
  19. fireside

    fireside Senior Member
    Messages: 661

    The state south of hartford has had almost no snow for the past three years. so most towns and the state cut there snow budgets. In the past few years if you ran a loader down the state roads you could get salt to load all my trucks and have left over. This year with all the storms and current budgets criss they are trying to save any where they can. The state went from salt only back to using some sand/salt mix. They have huge piles of sand left from years past.As for plowing i still see the state trucks parked all over the place waiting for the snow to start. I guess holding them over is cheaper then sending them home and calling them back when the snow has started no reason to save on overtime for 8 hrs how many guy's?? waiting for the snow to start. No just use less salt. then at 6am when they are over there hours they get pulled off the road for mandatory rest periods makes total sense to me!!! once again goverment wasting my money.
     
  20. Runner

    Runner Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    Wow...That's only about a lb. and a half per thousand going down. that's a far cry from what you're putting down now. I hope they're counting on a good base ahead of time.