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Scraping problem with Western Uni

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Snoworks, Dec 30, 2002.

  1. Snoworks

    Snoworks Senior Member
    Messages: 466

    I did a search first and did not find what I was looking for, so here goes.

    I have a 2000 Jeep Wrangler with a 6'-6" Western Unimount. When the blade is straight, the 'U' edge sits level on the ground. When I angle it left or right, the inner most part of the plow edge (nearest to truck), is about 1/2" to 3/4" off of the ground. With plow completely angled half of the edge, if not more, does not come in contact with the ground. The more I angle the plow the worse it gets.

    Any suggestion! Its kind of a pain in the butt, making extra passes due to this problem.

    For some insight, you have to stand on the blade to make the plow edge touch the pavement when plow is completely angled.

    CGB
     
  2. Jerre Heyer

    Jerre Heyer Senior Member
    Messages: 948

    Snoworks, Plow mounting points need to be 10 1/2 to 12 1/2 in from the ground with the plow attached. You should be running air shocks on your truck Mopar part # attached in another thread. Do search on Jeep /plow. Problem is usually that the mount is too low to make level contact. Jerre
     
  3. Snoworks

    Snoworks Senior Member
    Messages: 466

    Jerre - The funny thing is, I did not have this problem before I put on timberens. Might have had this problem before but never noticed it until now.

    I have a 1999 Jeep with a Snoway. I installed timberens on this truck too, no such problems.

    Is the measurement taken from the center of the bottom plow pin's!

    CGB
     
  4. Snoworks

    Snoworks Senior Member
    Messages: 466

    Measurement from ground to center of pin is 10 1/2".

    Any other suggestions?

    CGB
     
  5. Jerre Heyer

    Jerre Heyer Senior Member
    Messages: 948

    Minimum is 10 1/2. Does the a frame sit level or low at the truck. Is the U edge the same size as the steel was?
    Do you have AIM for instant message? Buddy name Jerre Heyer if you do.
     
  6. Snoworks

    Snoworks Senior Member
    Messages: 466

    Plow frame measurements are as follows: At truck mounting point - 7" measured from the ground to bottome of L- angle frame. At pivot point - 5" measured from ground to bottom of L - angle frame. I think this is to much of an angle. I think the 'U' edge install has something to due with the problem.

    Before I installed the timberens I did not have this problem since the truck tilted forward a couple of inches. Now that the timberens keep the truck body level, I have to get the plow level to the truck. I think I will need to drop the 'U' edge down at least anouther 1" to 1 1/2".

    How much should the 'U' edge be below the plow moldboard. I was told not to go beyond 1 1/2". Now it seems, I will have to drop it to a total of 2 1/2" to 3" to get the plow frame level with truck. Does this sound right? Will this ruin my 'U' edge?

    CGB
     
  7. Big Todd

    Big Todd Senior Member
    Messages: 126

    Getting the frame height and the cutting edge height right sounds like the thing to check, but a thought just popped into my head.

    This may sound rediculously simple, but do you have enough slack in the lift chain? When the plow is on the ground and the controller is on "float", push the lift arm all the way down and make sure that there is a good bit of slack left in the chain.

    Just a thought... Good luck.
     
  8. MLB

    MLB Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    not clear on that?

    newbie here. I thought you wanted it snug when the ram was pushed all the way down? Seems like slack would limit the max height it could lift it?? :confused:
     
  9. Snoworks

    Snoworks Senior Member
    Messages: 466

    Bigg Todd - That is funny, it is the first thing I thought of! Wish it would have worked.

    It looks like I am at a cross roads with this plow set up. Since I put the timberens on, the truck sits 2 1/2" higher than it used to with the plow hooked up. Now the edge does not stay on the pavement, at angle, due to plow frame needing to be level with truck. Since I only have approx. 1" to play with on the 'U' edge, to lift the plow frame, what else can I do? I can attempt to bring the 'U' edge down a total of 2 1/2", but after reading many threads on the installation of these edges. It looks like I will be experiencing alot of chatter if I do so. Would hate to have to put the steel edge back on due to recent problems.

    Thanks for the replys.

    CGB
     
  10. Snoworks

    Snoworks Senior Member
    Messages: 466

    Were is Garagekepper or Plowking when you need them? LOL

    CGB
     
  11. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    In this case the issue isnt with the u edge but sounds like the issue is with that the truck is sitting to high. Change to a steel edge and you will have the same problems. I thought the unimounts were a min of 9.5". I could be wrong tho.
    Do you have adjustment to allow the clevis to be dropped a hole or two downward? If so try that. If not, take the timbrens out and see if that solves your problem.
    On that plow I wouldnt like to see more than 1.5" exposed on the u edge.
    Dino
     
  12. fordman

    fordman Senior Member
    Messages: 327

    Dino your right about the unimount height. I had one installed yesterday and in the instructions western gives you they say that the bottom of the mount should be between 9.5-11.5 inches off the ground.
     
  13. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    MLB, did anyone PM you about the slack in your chain? If not, no you don't want it snug with the ram all the way down. In the case of a Fisher Minute Mount, that would make it way too hard too hook up and unhook. Also, you couldn't plow surfaces below grade level with your truck. I'm not sure of the slack measurement recommended, I would say mine is set to start slack with about 4-5 inches of lift cylinder exposed. I tried shortening the chain on my 9' last year when it was the road at full angled. Changed it back real fast after the first time I tried to mount it.:mad: :realmad:
     
  14. Snoworks

    Snoworks Senior Member
    Messages: 466

    Plowking - The truck plow frame is within the recomended dimensions. If a new steel edge is to hang 4" below the moldboard, and a 'U' edge is only supposed to hang 1 1/2" below. Do you think it is wise to adjust the plow frame to accept the 'U' edge?

    The timberens gave me about 2 1/2" of lift with the plow mounted on the truck. It sits almost level with plow mounted to it. If I do adjust the truck plow mount frame, it will sit way to low to be of any use.
     
  15. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    I am not 100% familiar with Timbrens, but I thought they only "kicked in" when the suspension is compressed, like when you lift the plow. I didn't realize they would lift a vehicle 2.5" just by installing them. When you drop your plow, only the weight of the pump and headgear is on the vehicle suspension. The 600# of blade is on the ground.

    As I said, I don't know Timbrens, but I don't think they are supposed to be a "lift kit", which is what it sounds like.

    It almost sounds like you got the wrong ones for the vehicle?

    Just a thought. I am going to sniff around for some more info on them now....

    When you installed them on the 1999, did it raise the suspension 2.5"?

    ~Chuck
     
  16. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    I went to the Timbren web site, and according to their application guide, the part # your Jeep uses requires "professional installation". I don't know why, since the link to the part # resulted in an error.

    http://www.timbren.com/RideCtl/MFG/MFG_2.shtml

    I didn't see anywhere that the Timbrens will raise the ride height of a vehicle.

    Here are their installation tips.

    http://www.timbren.com/RideCtl/trouble.htm

    I don't know if you installed them yourself, but it sounds like they are causing your problem.

    ~Chuck
     
  17. MLB

    MLB Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    No. Totally lost with what you are explaining. Sorry.
    Plow is off the truck, hook hydraulics and install the pins. Ram is all the way down, put chain on. You DON'T pull the chain straight and hook it on the link that makes it the tightest at that point??????

    Not following about the chain making it hard to hook up and unhook. I have to take the chain off to unhook anyway, so how slack it is doesn't matter at all. I have an older Western and the lights and frame stay on the truck, not a unimount. Is that the difference?:confused:
     
  18. wyldman

    wyldman Member
    Messages: 3,265

    The Timbrens should not give you any lift.They should just be a hair above or just touching with the plow off the truck.When weight is applied they may help keep the truck up higher than before.2 1/2" sounds like a lot,unless that Jepp had really soft springs to begin with.Are they the correct part# for your truck ? Maybe they are boxed wrong ? This could cause the front end to sit too high.

    Is your truck mount adjustable ? Most Western Uni-mounts have several bolt holes which allows a small amount of adjustment.This may be enough to drop the mount down a bit and get it back closer to where it was before.Don't go to far or your rear frame brackets will not align properly.

    One other thing to check is could the plow,a-frame or quadrant be bent ? We have had this problem with some of our snowways,where the mounting ears on the quadrant bend upwards,causing the same problem with the edges not touching.
     
  19. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    MLB, yep that's the difference. With the MM, I don't take the chain off at all. Whole different setup.

    Sorry, maybe someone familiar the Western can help.
     
  20. Snoworks

    Snoworks Senior Member
    Messages: 466

    The timberens did not lift the suspension 2 1/2" from stock. The 2 1/2" is the difference from where the front bumper was before installation to after installation. With the plow in upright possition. Now truck sits level with plow on or off truck. Before truck dipped in the front, even with plow off, due to plow frame mount.

    It looks like the timberens due make contact with the truck frame, even with plow down, maybee a half inch or so.

    My other jeep does not have this problem, but it has a Snoway plow on it. So, no way to compare the two.

    Its probably something realy simple, just can't see it right now. Kind of frustrating. I am going to do some tests with plow mount heights, by sticking 4' x 8' sheets of plywood under plow. To see how much the mount needs to come down, to get proper operation.

    CGB