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salt application rate

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by bcbock, Dec 19, 2005.

  1. bcbock

    bcbock Junior Member
    Messages: 5

    everyuone gives a different amt for application of salt. FHWY recommends anywhere from 100 lb/1 lane mile to 250 lb/ 1 lane mile. that translates to anywhere from 100 lb per 63,000 sq. ft. to 250 lb per 63,000 sq. ft. granted
    the FHWY doesn't have to consider cost but as a professinal, i must consider my clients cost, safety and long term damage to surfaces in and out of the building. some say anywhere upto almost 800 lb/acre. surely there is some
    type of realistic amount per acre, granted site specific info including amt of traffic, snowfall, surface temp and air temp are important considerations. i'm giving a seminar on how best top control ice/snow. what's reasonable yet
    efficient? i'm looking at pre treatment and then post treatment, high and low end>
     
  2. cincy snowdog

    cincy snowdog Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    salt appl. rates

    i have some lit. from akzo nobel salt ,it states dif.amounts for dif. temps but on average it is near .45 lb per 100 sq ft. more if colder or dry snow less for freezing rain or wet snow hope this helps ex 10 x 100 x .45 =450 lbs salt
     
  3. Runner

    Runner Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    Are they saying .45 lbs. per 100, or 45 lbs. per 100. BIG difference, and either one I don't understand. .45 wouldn't be enough to do anything, and 45 would be enough to make people trip over. LOL.
    4.5 lbs. per thousand wouldn't hardly make a dent in a freshly plowed lot - much less anything else. 450 lbs. per thousand, and like I said, people would be slipping on all the rocks - if not tripping over piles. I think maybe we should re-look at those numbers and see if they were read right. :help:
    Also, you have to consider that doing a lane mile is NOT the same as doing a parking lot of the same size (sq. footage - 63,360, to be exact). The difference is that on a lane mile, it is a steady flow of traffic which increases the melting rates. This is not inclusive of areas that people walk, park, and use minimal traffic (like the outer areas) as are found in parking areas. A fair average of salt used after a snow clearing is 20 lbs. per thousand when temps are in and as low as the 20's. Heavier for colder conditions (pavement from previous climate, wind, and future air temps). Try it and you'll see. You can always go a bit heavier...it never hurts, and it depends on what the clients needs are, but NEVER go any less than this. Also, understand, that these rates apply to bagged salt that is completely clean and dry. Bulk salt can be a whole different ball of wax since it can weigh up to 3x as much per volume as bagged. It is generally much wetter than bagged and holds ALOT of moisture while still appearing to be dry. The weight difference can be incredible. That is why bulk salt is more or less measured in yards spread, than in lbs..
     
  4. cincy snowdog

    cincy snowdog Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    Runner Is Lost On Salt

    YEH RUNNER, MAN ,ALL THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO LOSE THERE JOB NOW,YOU JUST SOLVED IT ALL..I SIMPLY TOLD HIM THAT THE AVERAGE IS .45 LB PER 100 SQ FT. FOR YOUR BLIND ASS IT IS(POINT)45LB PER 100 SQ FT.:nono: :nono: I DIDN'T MAKE THIS UP I JUST RECITED IT SO SINCE YOU ARE THE MAN YOU CALL THE SALT INSTITUTE AND TELL THEM THEY ARE WRONG.THEY ONLY RESEARCH THIS FOR A LIVING THERE MR SNOW PRO. SO MAYBE YOUR THE ONE WITH THE WRONG NUMBERS:

    AKZO NOBEL 800-752-SALT

    SALT INSTITUTE 703-549-4648
    OR WEB WWW.SALTINSTITUTE.ORG
     
  5. djd427

    djd427 Member
    from NEPA
    Messages: 98

    Should it be 4.5 lbs/100 sqft.? 45lbs./1000 sqft.?
    :confused:
     
  6. Runner

    Runner Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    I don't go by what's printed on websites, as there are misprints all the time. I go by what works out in the field under actual conditions. Yes, the amounts they give work for normal salting conditions of Lane areas. I was just emphasizing that for what it sounded like HE was looking for, not to confuse the area of a lane mile with square footage of a parking lot (like so many do). It's common, and it is not that bad of a thing. I don't think we need to go in to all the name calling, and bad mouthing. No one means any offense here to anyone. I'm sure that if we were to ask other guys on here who have been doing this a while (and guys that HAVEn't even been doing it so long, they would concur. Myself, yes...I am inexperienced. I've only been at it for just over 20 years, so yeah,... there's always a chance I'm wrong. But I'll tell you what,..when I'm wrong,..I'm the FIRST to admit it.
     
  7. bcbock

    bcbock Junior Member
    Messages: 5

    Thanks...that works out to appr. 200 lb per acre. FHWY talks about anywhere from 100-200 lb per lane mile. Granted, on a road you have friction, traffic, continual salting, etc but...I rather have to reapply to clear
    some slick spots rather than be crucnching on salt until the next snowfall.
    also, the majority of our ots we can pre treat. This would be a good subject for SIMA to study. Everything out there deals with roads bt nothing with parking lots. You still didn't mention how you aply it, however.
     
  8. cincy snowdog

    cincy snowdog Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    We Do Commercial Lots ,we Use Dumps With Undertailgate Spreaders Can Salt A Lot In Mins ,as Far As Crunching The More Salt You Sell The More Money Your Wallet Crunches Right? Thats The Name Of The Game.so With Safety In Mind You Are There To Perform A Job That You Are Responsible For Everyones Safety,so As Soon As You Start To Control The Lot Your Are Responsible Now.so With That In Mind We Have To Protect Ourself .salt Is Not Per Appl. It Is Amount Used,you Never Need The Same Exact Amount.sell More Salt Make More Money.but You Are There For Safety You Dont Want A Small Patch To Be Called On ,salt IT And Your Protected.i Am Not Saying We Bleach The Lot White But Sales Is The Start. Even Our Smaller Ones Generaly Are Close On Amount Say Drive Is 10 X200 Takes About 900 Lbs This Is Bulk,so With The Bags Yeh Not As Much Because The Grains Are Bigger But Bulk Will Melt It Faster Because The Powder Makes A Brine Mix Faster Than The Bigger Rocks But Bulk Cost 36 Aton To Buy, Skid Of Salt It Is 2400lbs. 80#(30 On Skid ) But Cost 150.00 . Sell It Right And You Work Easier
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2005
  9. SnoForce

    SnoForce Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    10' x 200' = 2000 sq. ft and your putting down 900 lbs of salt? AM I reading this right?
     
  10. me1223

    me1223 Member
    Messages: 70

    thats like 1# per 2sq.ft. I heard 1#/100sq.ft. was normal.
     
  11. fernalddude

    fernalddude PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,105

    in cincy also

    Gee if you put that much salt down you must spend a lot of time running back to resupply. I read that you have been in the bizz since 1996 WOW we have only had about 15 good storms since then the rest are about average and that is about 15 -20 events all season long. IMO sounds like your doing overkill i also do comm props for over 25 years and if my math is right you could walk on the salt your placing on your props either you got one heck of a contract or your over applying your chemicals.....
     
  12. Runner

    Runner Senior Member
    Messages: 957

    Well, since I am blind, and since "I am the man", I am going to say THAT's alot of SALT! LOL:D Seriously though, I think he (Cinci) meant 9, as in 9.00 lbs. of salt. For myself, that much area in a parking lot would take about 40 lbs. of bagged salt (about 1/2 of an 80# bag). For bulk, it would take more (weightwise) because of the difference in weight of wetter bulk to the dry bag. We go at 20# per thousand on the bagged - plain and simple. This works for us without being in excess, and without missing any. This is rated at colder weather as well, so this is sort of at the high end. Again, he was refering more to lane mile area, as opposed to open and hardly used lot areas.
     
  13. cincy snowdog

    cincy snowdog Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    yes we do use alot of salt ,when there is ice on the ground or light snow we are on service calls we do docks,stores ,trucking co.s that require full service only ,we are not far from a river hub that unloads barges of salt,three salt co. s here,no problem getting bulk or bag salt.we use our trucks year round but if i am going to use my trucks like over size salt shakers then i am going to make money and sell my service. i suppose it is all in your sales can you sell snow to an eskimo, i guess you can say we do.if you are not making money and making premium money your not running right.do you receive deposit checks in july for retainer-we do-we give a service that is very good just as you would but we look for the money accts. and they want service they get it,and they are safe we have had our same accts. for awhile now and picked up new mall this year so take it as you want,hey fernald is it still glowing over that way, just around the corner from ya.
     
  14. fernalddude

    fernalddude PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,105

    green glow

    Yep but I have moved from fernald to a chemical plant in cincy we got all the same crap there but they wont be shutting down soon. So wear you ppe and and glow with us.. (LOL) we run in tri-county and lower butler county north and south of 275 betwen rt4 and rt 42:waving: :waving:
     
  15. cincy snowdog

    cincy snowdog Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    we are in the downtown and queensgate area .